Topic: On Fate Points & "Hardcore" Rolemaster

[Cory Magel]

Two important factors:
1) Our games last a minimum of six months, some last for years.
2) When anyone uses a Fate Point to avoid a killing attack the attacker gets the Fate Point.

We use Fate Points almost more for the GM's benefit than the players.  It allows the GM to keep important NPC's alive without essentially nullifying a players success (at killing the NPC) without reward (because the PC gets the Fate Point).

Also, while I would say for "fun" reasons we don't want a dumb luck death crit killing a PC in a incredibly unimportant situation the definition of "fun" can vary for others.  For us the reason such an event is not "fun" is because we put a lot of effort into the creation of our PC's since our games last so long (and their histories are commonly woven into the campaign).

It can make for some interesting unplanned ongoing enemies too when a random combatant takes a Fate Point from the PC's.

[MariusH]

Our games usually last for over a year, often several years.

Also, we usually start at very low level (1-3), so we have no "lifegiving" or equivalent available.

Crit rolls are rolled openly, but other rolls are made in secret, to hide information that the modifiers would give (like opponents OB, perception skill, maybe the difficulty of a task etc) from the players.

We have played different ways. In the early games, we had no "fate points", but the GM was, in a few cases, very kind when it came to getting help from high-level NPCs (usually clerics) to revive PC. Just happened a few times, though.

Recently, we've been using fate points. They work like this: If you get a fatal crit you didn't deserve, if can be used to alter it to an unconscious state, usually with some none-fatal wounds. Did you just try to pick the pocket of the barbarian tribes chief? No fate points allowed - take your chances! Tried to climb up a hill on your way through the woods? No, you didn't fall down and break your neck, just knocked yourself out and injured your arm.  Fate points are only used for this, and they are very limited (start with 3, maybe gain one every 5th level, maybe not). TPKs means no fate points can save you. Also, we had a situation where two players were in combat. One of them got a lethal crit, the other one managed to get away. No fate point allowed, because the body was not recovered. Later, an injured PC was thrown into sea by a monster. He had fatal injuries. Had the other players not managed to get him up and away within a very short time, fate points would not have been allowed.

So, why have them at all? To us, we find that frequent character deaths spoil the gaming. It really takes a very long time for a new character to become a true member of the party (the others are life-long friends, in comes this new guy who they just met, and who knows nothing of the history of the players). This makes the player playing the new character having less fun for several gaming sessions. It also can mess up the story line a lot. Maybe a significant part of the plot was spun around the now deseased PC. So we don't want them to die falling down a tree or critically failing a "light" spell. Having said that, death IS, and should always be, an option. The players SHOULD be careful. And they are. Only in a very few instances are they willing to take great risks (sometimes necessary, sometimes just out of stupidity). And they still can, and occationally do, die.

[Wolfhound]

I use the same general technique as GrumpyOldFart (although on very rare occasions I will fudge rolls for the sake of the story/plot, but that usually isn't done for the sake of keeping a character alive).

[Marc R]

I find fate points a) Make the players feel a bit happier about danger and b) make the GM happier about risking killing you.

Like many rules, it can work out really really well, or screw things up. . .a key is not to hand them out too often, or they start to feel like free lives you get in a video game.

[Suzune]

In all honesty I have never played a rolemaster campaign without fate points. Every character gets the chance to start the game with one fate point. We use our fate points to cancel a roll against us and get a reroll. So there is a change you use your fate point and you still die.

 I have always found that the players don't feel they need to weigh their options as much when they make decisions if they feel like they can just take it back. However, at the same time it keeps the character from dieing from an E critical with a lucky roll of 95+

On the other hand, I am currently in a campaign slated to last several years and in the first three months everyone has lost their only fate point. So it is going to get ugly.   

[markc]

Suzune,
 Welcome to the ICE Forums
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[ironmaul]

Welome Suzune.

I'm curious to know what forms of fate points does a GM hand out(so to speak). Is it a re-roll, reduce a critical level, or a bonus to a roll etc.? (If this needs to be in a different thread then please make one if you like).
Fate points have always interested me and once the RMU is released I want to play it with fate points in mind.

[Suzune]

Thanks everyone, I am actually super excited to find this forum.

In regards to the question. The fate point allows a re roll of one attack or critical done to your character or self inducide actions that would kill the entire team such as an arcanist fumbles an important spell. I will give an example, last time we played in our campaign, my character fumbled her alertness check and fell through the roof of the house she was standing on. I was stunned without parry for 2 turns and while that was in effect I took a 25D slash. The gm rolled a really high critical that would have caused me to lose my hands or something. I used my fate point, go a reroll on the critical and kept both my hands.

That is how we have always used them.

[Suzune]

opps and there was a clumsy double post...sorry about that.

[ironmaul]

What about other instances such as a thief springing a trap that has a poison dart that may immobilise the character but not actually kill him/her?  Sort of minor story/plot modifiers that help the game along. I know that sounds a little weak, but they have this in the Firefly RPG and thought it was an interesting idea. I guess you really wouldn't call them fate points...I wonder if it would work well with RM?

[Suzune]

When I started roleplaying my GM said that your fate point can be used for any reroll that your character thinks they need. I once used one on a circle lore because I needed information and the roll that I got just wasn't worth the information. So sure, I do not see why you could not use it for the reason you stated. How we play is that it is good for one reroll. So anything that the players want it would work.

Also a Firefly RPG sounds like a fun idea.

[ironmaul]

Ok, cool. I think if your GM was more generous with fate points like say 3 every adventure then I guess it wouldn't be so bad if you thought one wasn't worth it.

Yeah, Firefly was the most expensive rpg book that I bought...got caught up in the series etc. reason I bought it. It had some really good concepts in it that I thought would also be good in RM as well. I'm now just waiting anxiously for the new RM now...actually so is my wife, which is really weird...and she not even  a geek! well not much of one anyway

[GuernseyMan]

I think a lot of the Fate Point problem is in striking a balance between "usefulness in keeping a character alive" and "reducing the game to Fate Point hoarding for bosses". Cancelling or re-rolling a crit can give a "wizard now has invulnernerablity" time from my favourite 4 player video game.

We use fate points and always have. The only use I allow is to reduce a critical roll by 25 (or 24 in the case of a 91 roll) but only if the roll is above 70. This reduces the "instant kill" results to "horrible maimings" so keeps the RM combat flavour without too much lethatlity. Most of the time this still puts the character out of action so does not interrupt the dynamics of the combat. Hit point attrition will still kill and has done frequently.

I've never rolled a critical in a game as a GM. Players roll all criticals they receive so they've only got themselves to blame when it goes wrong.

I'm using a start of 5 Fate Points with an additional 3 at each level (up to a maximum of 5). This is probably too much so I'm looking at reducing it.

[ironmaul]

I've never rolled a critical in a game as a GM. Players roll all criticals they receive so they've only got themselves to blame when it goes wrong.

I guess that's one way of avoiding the flak

I'm using a start of 5 Fate Points with an additional 3 at each level (up to a maximum of 5). This is probably too much so I'm looking at reducing it.

I guess the number would determine the potency of the fate points handed out. A few fate points, say three at the start handed out should be fairly potent and only gain one each level to the max of five, I would think reasonable. If the fate points where weak in potency then yeah, 5 at the beginning and three each level with a max of seven perhaps.

[chippermonks]

I too once had a player who fell into a house and almost had her hands cut off....

Like Suzune's GM, when I give out fate points they are A) given as real life rewards (during college I handed them out for 100%s on college exams I deemed worthy) and B) mile markers in the game (completion of major quests) and C) if a player was really in character and went above and beyond what was necessary.

of course my players rarely use their fate points lightly ,as who knows when they might be faced with multiple "boss" monsters whom also have fate points.

[dranthor]

I don't use luck points/fame points etc.  But I do have a system in place whereby f theparty members get hurt they have a scroll that they may use that opens a portal  to a high level person whom will help them ... for a price... 

Example one person had an achilles tendon hit with all activity at -75.  He happened to be a sorceror with almost all of the healing for the group.  Needlessly to say he was at a big disadvantage.  they used the scroll and the  person who helped them has a quest they must do now. He also gave them another scroll and a coin.      And they used that one too.  .. add another quest.

The quest are not easy either... the first one is to get a T Rex tail bone.  There is only one island in my world where ther are prehistoric creatures and now they have to travel there, get the item and use the coin to return to the high level person to pay him back.

[markc]

 In a home rules system game that used some elements of RM2, the GM had healing spirits that could be summoned by ritual for a platinum piece (pp). Which was a lot of money and it made a run on pp's. Note it had to be a pp and nothing else would work.
 IIRC, a pearl worth at least 100gp that aided in IDing items and their powers, abilities and history.


  The above game showed me that rituals can have a great place in a game and the GM can control what was in the game with them.
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