Topic: Intelligence

[arakish]

Started in the last three posts of the How Many Different Types of Magic topic, I started this thread for Intelligence since I do not have the ability to do a topic split.

Actually, the addition of the Fundamental Interactions was me being stupid after a FtF player asked me about the Unified Field Theorem being the ultimate power of the gods.

Thus, I added it as an afterthought of "He may be correct."

And ultimately on the Time Travel question, even the gods are incapable of "true" time travel.  Again, they simply cross barriers into alternate realities/timelines.  It is just that they have it easier finding their way back to their native reality/timeline.  Like Q in Star Trek, they have a basic understanding that far surpasses any understanding we currently possess.

It is my belief that "true" time travel is impossible.  In any reality/timeline, time is immutable.  Until I am proven wrong, it is a belief I shall always hold as being true.  If someone wants to hold that "true" time travel is possible, I will agree that s/he has the right to believe such.  Besides, as mentioned in another post (maybe not in this thread), physics as we understand them do not state that time travel is impossible.  Nor do they state that it is possible.  Thus, in my opinion, it is like a coin toss: heads = possible, tails = impossible.  Or, however you wish to believe.

Thanks for the criticism, and the end suggestion.  In the end, I will be eliminating the Fundamental Interactions.

rmfr

I read in a book (I think it was Ascending, by James Alan Gardner) about a super-intelligent extra-terrestrial explaining greater intelligences to a human, and it's actually quite a good one.

Let's say there is a cliff top, at the top of which is balanced a big rock (think the coyote and roadrunner style if you're old enough). Now, a human would look at that rock and think that it could fall at any time, and wouldn't want to go to sleep under where it would fall. A dog, on the other hand, would not be able to extrapolate what the rock might do, and would happily go to sleep in the splat zone.

The human race is wandering along a gully with hundreds of these rocks. Some we can see, but most, we can't. A superior intelligence can see them and predict what will happen to a degree which a mere human would find bordering on the magical.

Which actually also leads into the reason why we have not been contacted yet by outsiders... From the start of the universe, it has taken us almost 14 billion years to get to where we are now. And on this planet, unicellular life was where it was at for about 4 billion years. Leaving aside the universe for now, let's say that on a comparable planet, unicellular life started fizzing, hypothetically, 50 million years earlier, a drop in the ocean in geological time, but otherwise, evolution was parallel. Humans have evolved from essentially an animal intelligence  to where we are now in about 3 million years, and 50 million years ago we were basically rats. I suspect our hypothetical aliens have as much interest in talking to us, as we would have in talking to a rat. Possibly even less so.

Even if intelligence in the universe is common, the vast amount of distance and time involved might hamper contact. The odds are pretty low that more than one intelligent race will evolve close enough and at just the right time to even notice another.
Check out Pushing Ice, Alistair Reynolds.

So having more than one race of humanoids on the same planet (elves, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, orcs, trolls, medusa..) is unlikely. But if they did interact, some of their tech\lifestyle might seem like magic to the other races. Elves might have 200 words to describe a leaf and talk to plants while halflings could have 6 meals/day but no lethal cholesterol. Dwarves could work titanium with steampunk tech. How do medusa  petrify people? So go ahead and have as many types of magic as you need!

Here is an idea I wrote and posted on my website (at bottom).

Of Other Life

This author believes we are unique in this universe.  However, this author also believes it to be complete arrogance to assume there is no other life out there in the universe.  After all, our galaxy is believed to have somewhere around 300 billion stars.  As of 2008, it is estimated that there are over 100 billion galaxies in our universe.  That means a possible total of 30 sextillion stars (30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (30 trillion billion; 3.0e22)).  Surely at least one of them has/had similar conditions to the ones here on Earth.

Besides, no matter how low the probability that any given galaxy will have intelligent life in it, the universe must have at least one intelligent species by definition; otherwise, the question would not arise.

However, there are some philosophers who would argue whether we are intelligent.  To which I say, "You have to be intelligent to be able to wax philosophical."

Then there is the Fermi Paradox.  The Fermi paradox (Fermi's paradox or Fermi-paradox) is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations (Wikipedia).  Many say that the Fermi Paradox was in response to the Drake Equation which predicted the possibility of 10 intelligent civilizations (comparable to our current civilization) existing at any given time.  However, it was actually in response to the rash of UFO sightings during the years up to 1950, when in a discussion, Enrico Fermi was quoted as saying: "Where are they?"

However, think on this.  And please realize I am using approximations.  The Milky Way Galaxy is about 100,000 light years in diameter.  We are situated about 60% of the distance from the galactic core.  The galactic radius is about 50,000 light years.  That puts us about 30,000 light years from the center.  Now make a circle with a 30,000 light year radius.  The circumference would be about 188,500 light years.  Now divide that into ten equal arcs and you have a separation of 18,850 light years.  We have been broadcasting signals into space, whether intentional or not, for only about 120 years.  These signals travel at the speed of light, at best.  If the next intelligent advanced civilization (IAC) is 18,850 light years away, that means they will not receive our signals for another 18,730 years.  Even if they were much closer, say 200 light years, they still will not receive our signals for another 80 years.  And that is assuming our signals remain strong enough to still be detected.  What if this other IAC was 200 light years away and they sent their first signals only 50 years ago?  We will not receive them for another 150 years.

Think about it.

And one of my favorite quotes:
 
"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life.  It's just been too intelligent to come here."
– Arthur C. Clarke

rmfr

[rdanhenry]

Only races too stupid to telepath each other ever develop radio as a mode of communication anyway. It's like ants trying to contact us with chemical cues.

And, of course, there's always the possibility of something like the Prime Directive (non-interference with non-star-faring cultures is an older idea in SF than Star Trek). It isn't too implausible; we've messed up enough on our own world to realize that even within our own species, even with good intentions, "help" can do more harm than good.

[providence13]

"makes you feel sort of insignificant, doesn't it?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYSXBsGOVuc&feature=related

The data may have changed, but this is how I learned it as a lad. Monty Python furthered my education.

[arakish]

I don't think us humans are even capable of either obeying or even enforcing anything like the Prime Directive.  We'd be more like in Avatar than Star Trek.  We see something we need, we take it, and to 7734 with the native life.  And if the native life fought back, then one of us would exterminate the other.

prov & all other fans of,
Exceptionally sad, I know, but I never got Monty Python.  Still don't.

rmfr

[markc]

 At this time is there intelligent life here on Earth.
MDC

[providence13]

"Can we have your liver, then?" 

[arakish]

At this time is there intelligent life here on Earth.
MDC

In truth, yes.  But it is not very wise.  In fact, it is still quite immature.  As the Nox would say, "The very young rarely do as they are told."  Or to paraphrase, the very young rarely do as they should.

"Can we have your liver, then?" 

rmfr

[bpowell]

Also, if you are a UFO believer, looking at the recent events on Earth would you want to land and try to set up a dialog with us?  Face it.  If they landed in certain parts of the world they would more than likely be killed as heretics.  Landing in other would mean they would be imprisoned and dissected.  Trust me I would use long range probes to watch humankind if I was just passing through.

[markc]

"Can we have your liver, then?" 

 Yes.
    I do not need that organ.
 Maybe I will sell it for an I-Pad + I Phone.
 
MDC

[RandalThor]

In fact, it is still quite immature.  As the Nox would say, "The very young rarely do as they are told."  Or to paraphrase, the very young rarely do as they should.

Using human development as the baseline, I think we are in our "terrible-twos." I used to think that we were in our teens, but that was wishful thinking to be sure. Sucks, because I wanna get off this damn planet and see other planets and systems first hand!!!!

Intelligence is what we define it to mean, and that definition can change as we (hopefully) evolve. An alien intelligence is just that, alien. So it may bear little-to-no resemblance to what we consider intelligence, and that is a failing on our part.

As for the basic fantasy setting of having multiple intelligent species: Magic, it is the great ingredient for change. (Like radiation was in the 50's - 80's.) Also, I like how Earthdawn handled it: Most of the other races sprang from humanity because of magic. (Some came from elsewhere.)

[Modric]

Even if there is intelligent, evolved life elsewhere in the universe, the problem remains that an object with mass cannot travel at the speed of light (Relativity Theory).  Thus, under our current Physics paradigm, physical travel between planets that lie at great distances (e.g., hundreds or thousands of light years, for example) is impracticable (IMO).

[JimiSue]

Not necessarily. My understanding of current thinking in this field is that there are still possibilities - wormholes (that old favourite of folding space and slipping through a place where two folds touch) or some kind of drive that compressed the fabric of space time in front of the craft and expanded it to the back. All we have to do with that is figure out how to generate gravity and stuff