Author Topic: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module  (Read 3393 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Hello, everyone.

I'm very excited about the rebranding effort behind the HARP and ShadowWorld books that is in process!  After many years of absence from Rolemaster/ShadowWorld, my gaming group is finally returning to the ICE family of products and we're all much looking forward to it.  I'm contemplating beginning a HARP campaign based in ShadowWorld, starting with the Star Crown Empire module (a book I've had for many years but never used).

Interestingly enough, I've noticed that this book has a religion section that mentions additional gods to the Orhan/Charon gods.  One deity in particular, Ramonth, is used as an adventure seed in the module, detailing a young cleric that discovers some unsettling truth about that god (details regrettably appear to be omitted from the module - we just learn he's searching for a document that will confirm his theory - but no specifics on the theory), causing agents of that order to pursue him.

One of my players is running a cleric and is thinking of assuming just such a role as discussed in this module.  As a result, he then asked me more about this god (in addition to the others) and specifics on the conspiracy behind him.  Unfortunately, the details are sparse in the module.  Additionally, the fact that this module's order/chaos pantheon of gods is not mentioned in the campaign setting makes me even wonder if it's worth making any of this material available for use in play.  (Why just tack on a whole bunch more gods, one might ask?)

Has anyone ever used this module in their ShadowWorld campaign?  If so, have you made use of the adventure seed concerning the young cleric in Areolis seeking the Role of Heroes document that is unsettling for Ramonth followers?  Any details on how you implemented (or would implement) this adventure seed would be much appreciated.

Why the renaming of the continent G'thal to Govon?

Many thanks to all!
nektar

Offline yammahoper

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,858
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Nothing to see here, move along.
Welcome...I'll post my adventure tomorrow, but Michigan State basketball is on right now.  Commercial almost over....
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Hello, Yammahoper.

That was very kind of you to take time away to write that response - and I want you to know I very much appreciate it!

I can't wait to read about your adventure!

Many thanks,
nektar

Offline markc

  • Elder Loremaster
  • ****
  • Posts: 10,697
  • OIC Points +0/-0
 I do not have the book but the Shadow World Players Guide might help out a lot with giving players basic world info.
MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Thank you, MDC.

I have a copy of the new Shadow World Players Guide, in addition to older master atlases of Shadow World.  The general world information I found there does not, unless I'm mistaken, appear to match the religion information I found in the G'Thal (Govon?) based module.  So I was just wondering how others handled that particular adventure seed.

Thank you nonetheless,
nektar

Offline yammahoper

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,858
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Nothing to see here, move along.
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 12:19:32 AM »
It was the secret that inspired me to create the adventure.  Little details like that are what I like in modules.

The group was powerful, in part because I was allowing SUC and Arms Companion.  The archmage had Protapasma Law or some such list, a list that allowed him to guard his castle with a score of Storm Giants.  It was that kinda game.  Will wanted his archmages castle to float/fly.  The storm giants were able to provide some info and research covered the rest.  This was what led to the actual adventure as you will see.

The secret was Ramonth had once been a man, that he became a god/esseance creature through use of a machine he discovered that converged several flows and tapped/shaped that power/  If another found and used the machine, Ramonth would cease being an immortal and a new immortal would usurp his place.

The party did not usurp Ramonth, rather they used the machine to enchant a control orb then parted it out for the crystals to finish the flying castle.  Use of the machine did weaken him and made a life long enemy for the entire group.

Btw, this is the game I ended by bombing the planet/eyes with atomics/anti matter war heads.  See, the party learned that Ondoval was seeking a lost Dreadnaught of the Old Empire that had been trapped in an etheral pocket as it turned out.  Ondoval succeeded in getting the ship since no one stopped him...those no ones being the party who refused to help.  Oh, how I laughed that day.

And yes, everybody was down in the day room the next day making new PC's.  As if there was a funner game anywhere else!  RM rocks.

P.S. for long time members, this was the group the druid recruited.  The archmage and druid were the definite party leaders (the druids main base was in the mountains of gold by that big geode gate)
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die.

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 10:44:02 AM »
Hello, Yammahoper.

Thanks so much for sharing how you ran that adventure with your team!  You came up with something very creative - it's impressive.

I may be taking a more mundane, low-fantasy approach suggesting Ramonth is just a conceptual tool used by the local religious order to bind the people of a state (Thosque) together for the higher good of commerce, and thus provide justification for immoral practices such as the lucrative slave trade market.

Of course, Thosque isn't the only state that participates in this practice.  But the eventual discovery of the Role of Heroes document could conceivably be used to unravel the foundation of that "faith", which in turn might yield other consequences within and without Thosque.

Thanks again!
nektar

Offline fac

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Shadow World's aficionado
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 06:55:40 PM »
I have the book but never used, I have my hands full with Emer now. ;D

First, most of the books with Shadow World stamp were designed as stand alone adventures and it seems ICE allowed writers to fit their small worlds in the big Kulthea picture. Think of Forgotten Realms.

The only canon is what TKA wrote plus approved, and part of the canon is that there are many local gods, so the Elder Gods could be from Orhan, and the rest (Dead Gods, Law & Chaos, others) are a mix of local Gods plus the traditiona Orhan and Charon. I would fit them in the character that fits them better (Moren could be Shaal, Hottr could be Oriana, Gwyne could be Phaon and Besida one of his lovers, a powerful spirit...), just make it work.

But I remember the topic and I thin for me it was quite clear, so I will fill the undetailed parts with some assumptions. Thosque has a caste system based on Ramonth teachings and this is written in the big temple of Rasul in leafgold, also everybody knows that the original text in the library of the temple.

But how about if a cleric that belongs to the lesser nobility was researching some documents and found a copy that says nothing about castes and nobility, and after some text analysis spells, he knows that it's from the same time than the original text in Thosque. But as everybody knows too, there were two copies of the original document, one in Rasul and one stored somewhere in Arelios, home of one of the heroes.

If you want to check the theological aspects it could be that Ramonth is a dead god too and his role was filled by the greedy Pylon, so he has two aspects now.

Hope that helps.
You must feel the thought and think the feeling

Offline Guillaume

  • Wise Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 889
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Kulthean Fanatic
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2012, 02:41:01 AM »
The only canon is what TKA wrote plus approved, and part of the canon is that there are many local gods, so the Elder Gods could be from Orhan, and the rest (Dead Gods, Law & Chaos, others) are a mix of local Gods plus the traditiona Orhan and Charon. I would fit them in the character that fits them better (Moren could be Shaal, Hottr could be Oriana, Gwyne could be Phaon and Besida one of his lovers, a powerful spirit...), just make it work.

Actually it's more simple than that.
You have the Lords of Ohran and Charon that can have a local name.
You have also local gods that can range from the river river spirit to that old oak tree over on the hill.
So if a given local god doesn't fit with the portfolio of any Lord of Ohran or God of Charon, it is definitely going to be something local.

In Govon specific case, it's not easy to make them fit in, as like many SW modules, it was not written to fit exactly to fit into Terry's vision of SW.
So, if we want to keep to the canon, the main information from the module ( political structure, people, basic history ) is correct and the rest has to be thrown away. That's what I did when I made a campaign in Govon.
514 to see, 416 to lock, 614 to shot...Target downed...Ask the marines to pick up the pieces.

RM, RM2, RMSS, RMFRP, HARP,  MERP, Cyberspace, SM, SM2, SM:P, Star Strike, Armored Assault, SD , SD : The Next Millenium, Bladestorm, Battle of the Five Armies .... Collecting ICE production since the epoch...

Offline fac

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Shadow World's aficionado
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2012, 07:19:35 AM »
Actually it's more simple than that.
You have the Lords of Ohran and Charon that can have a local name.
You have also local gods that can range from the river river spirit to that old oak tree over on the hill.

Of course that was only my thoughts and it seems to me that our point of view is quite similar ;)

The only difference I see is that I do not consider that local gods have to be "rural", Mynistra in Haestra is quite powerful and afaik not linked to an specific area in her domain. I'm open to accept local gods as powerful children of Orhan or Charon lords, or Elders like the Storm Wizard or any other thing you can imagine, including Ruechei as one of the Dragonlords kin.
You must feel the thought and think the feeling

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2012, 12:35:07 PM »
The only difference I see is that I do not consider that local gods have to be "rural", Mynistra in Haestra is quite powerful and afaik not linked to an specific area in her domain. I'm open to accept local gods as powerful children of Orhan or Charon lords, or Elders like the Storm Wizard or any other thing you can imagine, including Ruechei as one of the Dragonlords kin.
I was thinking about the whole "local gods" aspect as well, when I read his first post. Of course, just reskinning the deity to fit better in the Orhan Pantheon is a fine choice as well. Also, while the Lords of Orhan are generally more powerful than local gods, there are supposed to be many local gods that can match the Lords power, and even exceed it on their home turf. So, it is quite possible that the local god in question, is very powerful, powerful enough to give the Lord pause.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2012, 03:14:31 PM »
Hello, Fac!  Allo, Guillaume!  Hello, RandalThor!

I want to thank you all for your excellent insight.  You've provided me fine food for thought not just for running the Govon module, but also valuable tips on running a Shadow World campaign in general.  I'm very grateful for the time you took to share this information with me.

Fac:

Thank you for pointing out the fact that most of the Shadow World modules were designed as stand-alone adventures.

Your suggestions on interpreting the local gods are excellent - thank you.  And I especially appreciate your adventure seeds concerning the caste system of Thosque (I'm not certain that the module worded it that way, but it does appear to be very caste like, given that the high clergy are ranked above, followed by merchants, followed by others down to serfs and slaves).  So your idea of a lower-ranked cleric discovering a sacred, infallible text contradicting the current caste system is excellent.

Thanks again so much for your help.

Guillaume:

I'll keep in mind your point about the Lords of Orhan and Charon having local god names in a given locale.  I will try to keep to TKA canon, freely dispensing with anything that can contradict it.  Je vous remercies beaucoup!

RandalThor:

Thank you so much for your theory on the option of reskinning deities.  Also, thanks for that interesting point about local gods having greater strength on their "home turf."  That is a very fascinating.

I just wouldn't know how to deal with local gods being on their turf and the possibility of the players running into them.  (I imagine all gods being distant, on moons that are largely inaccessible, LOL.)  I wonder how a local god can be approached - it's an interesting topic.

Many thanks,
nektar

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2012, 03:20:04 PM »
Other Govon thoughts:

Finally, upon getting to the end of the module, I read that G'Thal (i.e., Govon) isn't in contact with the rest of the world.  I guess I should assume there are no obelisks about with which to attempt to leave the land in the future.

I wonder what other options players may have for establishing contact with the outside world - other lands.  I think I recall reading that, in general, ship voyage is very treacherous as the seas frequently have deadly storms.

How have your players gotten around from land mass to land mass in circumstances such as these?

Many thanks!
nektar

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2012, 06:00:46 AM »
Also, thanks for that interesting point about local gods having greater strength on their "home turf."  That is a very fascinating.
I am pretty-sure it mentions that somewhere in the world guide, I just don't remember where.

Quote
I just wouldn't know how to deal with local gods being on their turf and the possibility of the players running into them.  (I imagine all gods being distant, on moons that are largely inaccessible, LOL.)  I wonder how a local god can be approached - it's an interesting topic.
By "on their home turf" I don't mean that they are easily accessible and walk around with their followers or anything like that. They are still mysterious and aloof, and likely reside in a well hidden/disguised location - I would hazard a guess that they could have their own "pocket" dimension, but not sure if the cosmology of SW allows for that.

But it could be something more simple. Fictional example: The Nature God of the Voerken Mire, Ts'inglik'k, in NE Emer resides in the Great Stump; a huge stump of what was once a massive tree. It is easily 60' across and 30' high, and has swamp moss growing all over it. Only his highest of high priests - not that he has a lot of priests - knows the location of the stump, the rest of his worshipers just consider the mire itself to be the god, in some sense. Etc....

So, the god is local, only being worshiped by denizens of where it resides, and possibly only by certain residents. (Like the god of money in a city might only count the merchants and bankers as its most adherent followers.) Depending upon how powerful the god is, which I would imagine has something to do with the number of followers it has, a Lord of Orhan that comes down to Kulthea's surface (leaving a portion of their power back on the moon, if I am not mistaken), may not be more powerful than the local while they are both in its area of influence (mire, city, forest, lake, etc...). Now, if that Lord is able to get the local god outside it's home turf, well, all bets are off.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline egdcltd

  • Revered Elder
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,302
  • OIC Points +70/-70
    • Azukail Games
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2012, 06:23:16 AM »
Also, thanks for that interesting point about local gods having greater strength on their "home turf."  That is a very fascinating.
I am pretty-sure it mentions that somewhere in the world guide, I just don't remember where.

SWMA4, p.154, Local Gods section.
I made some things! Azukail Games

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2012, 10:21:22 AM »
Hello, RandalThor:

Thank you so much for sharing your perspective and that excellent (and well detailed!) example.  I really appreciate that.

I wonder if it matters much what type (local versus general) god/goddesses clerical members of a party are better off choosing.  I imagine if they're situated in one place, they might be better off with a local god, but if they want to keep their horizons expanded for future travel, a general/distant deity might be better.  But I'm not sure about that.

Hello, Egdcltd:

Thanks so much for that reference.  I need to admit that I haven't gone through my SWMA in *years*, but I'm much looking forward to cracking that book open again and getting re-acquainted with that fantastic world.  I'll be sure to check out that reference.

Thanks to all!
nektar

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2012, 11:45:05 AM »
I wonder if it matters much what type (local versus general) god/goddesses clerical members of a party are better off choosing.  I imagine if they're situated in one place, they might be better off with a local god, but if they want to keep their horizons expanded for future travel, a general/distant deity might be better.  But I'm not sure about that.
Personally, due to the nature of *most* campaigns to have a fair bit of traveling, I would go with a non-local god. I feel that local gods are best reserved for local NPCs.

Of course, if the campaign is generally going to stick in the same area, then a local god could be the way to go, with the odd occurrence of going outside the gods area of influence feeling/being odd to the priest in question. (Could make for some fun RPing, and there is no reason why they can't still have spellcasting ability from their god, but I would make it more difficult in some way. Give them the feeling of not being "home.")
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.

Offline fac

  • Seeker of Wisdom
  • **
  • Posts: 202
  • OIC Points +0/-0
  • Shadow World's aficionado
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2012, 05:14:02 PM »
In Emer 1 there are examples of how to manage local gods, because the main religion in Miir and Vornia is Minystra, a local god. Where She lives is not clear in the book, TKA did not give more details.
You must feel the thought and think the feeling

Offline nektar

  • Neophyte
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2012, 09:25:44 PM »
Awesome!  Thanks so much for the advice, RandalThor, Fac.  I much appreciate your insight.

nektar

Offline RandalThor

  • Sage
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,116
  • OIC Points +0/-0
Re: Help Request for Religion-Based Adventure Seed in Star Crown Empire Module
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2012, 08:05:59 AM »
Awesome!  Thanks so much for the advice, RandalThor, Fac.  I much appreciate your insight.

nektar
You are very welcome, glad to be of any help, and welcome to the Boards.
Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Scratch that. Power attracts the corruptible.

Rules should not replace the brain and thinking.