Topic: How long lasts a typical RM combat? Game time Vs. Real time

[VladD]

I'm quite an experienced GM, in plenty of game systems and I've ran (a million) combat encounters already. I was seriously wondering how RM combat compared to other RPG's combat, with other GM's.

I understand it is a measure of experience of the players, game rules, number of players and group mechanics, but for my players a typical, challenging combat (say equal power to the player party and no significant surprise advantages for either team) lasts about 2-3 hours in RM. This compares to about the same in D&D (and its clones). In most of my games I have 6 players on my table.

The only thing that has changed is the time in game time. I'm not talking 6 sec. rounds vs 10 sec. rounds, but more that D&D combats tend to drag on, because most monsters can take a lot of punishment and require many spells and hits to go down, where in RM the almighty crit is the the killer. So RM combat takes an average of 4-6 rounds, where D&D combat tended to go in the low teens, or about double that of a RM combat.

How do the times mentioned here compare to your games?

[providence13]

I think my groups average about the same as you.

My players do groan when they hear that an opponent has 'crit reduction' because they know the combat will drag out a bit longer.

It's the 2-3 hrs that I'd like to cut down. A big part of that time is reminding players how they can do something. "If you have to move x distance at y speed this will mod your OB -z"; for example. I saying to myself a movement matrix based on BMR, distance and Pace should be on each character sheet..
  But even when I'm organised, prepared and everyone is on their game, it still takes about the same time.

 

[markc]

  IMHO you can have battles that last 2-3 hours but you can also have battles that last 10 min in everything goes right for the PC's.


 As a GM I trade skilled combatants to more combatants to speed up the combat. I also have a standardized skill system relating how good you are based on your skill bonus. This allows me to make rational game decisions about NPC's vs the party is this level so the foes should be this level.
 Also remember that not all fights have to be fair. A couple of times throw them up against lesser foes and lesser numbers, this will make the longer battles be more important and the shorter battles better.
 I also try and remember when constructing a game that the PC's will often be injured during combat so the opponents should not match up exactly vs the PC's.


MDC 

[providence13]

To be honest, rules lawyering takes up a good chunk of game time.

Either a (Mage) player will want to squeeze too much into a round or try to argue minutia over what can and can't be done by their character or the opposition.
 "Play your own character!" I'll bark. "Contrary to your belief, the other PC's aren't your NPC's. Stop whispering to the inexperienced guy who just joined the group." This results in the greedy (Mage) getting more "attention" and another might step outside to smoke, eating up time.

When I start counting, they know that it's their round that is ticking away.
Although VladD wasn't talking about time in a round, 6 sec rounds did speed things up.

But I'm not bitter.

[VladD]

Ah yes, thanks for the speedy replies as of yet.

@markc: yeah I usually have random encounters that are not scaled to the PC party and represent the environment and then there are the real challenges that will consume 2-3 hrs. As the adventure/ chapter ends, the encounters tend to become even more challenging.

@Providence13: I know what you mean! and besides those rules explainations/ rules discussions, we've also got a TON of anecdotes to share with each other... my standard saying is: "BUUUUUUUUT in the meantime in the game, ....." I need to get my players to think on their round BEFORE their turn is up.

Still I'd like to get some info on how long an average challenging combat lasts in game time...?

[markc]

  I use a different combat system but IMHO it is close enough to provide a time of 6-9 rounds normal and 13+ for challenging. That is IIRC as I never really just count rounds.
MDC

[Lord Garth]

In our games, five players (PC time is critical here) take about 2.5 hours to finish a 5 rounds (Haste included) encounter. RM encounters are hectic in that there's so much going on that those 5 rounds (50 seconds) take a lot of time and a lot of dice rolls to resolve.

[Marc R]

Depends on the group, and the situation, a lot. . .I've had one round take an hour, or gotten 20 rounds done in an hour.

[arakish]

Depends on the group, and the situation, a lot. . .I've had one round take an hour, or gotten 20 rounds done in an hour.

Same here.  And largely, it is dependent on the number of foes the players are against.  I have seen a combat of 4 players vs 4 foes go as quick as 10 minutes.  OTOH, if the situation is like the ending of the Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, then I have seen it take several hours, sometimes spread across several sessions.

rmfr

[Cory Magel]

Take this with a grain of salt, because my group is very combat/tactically oriented, but combats in real time can be three to four hours.  However this is a party of 5-6 players and easily three times that many foes typically.  Game time?  Probably not more than three minutes.  (We use 6 second rounds).  Most our game sessions are about eight eights hours (but down from our 12+ days before families and real jobs and all that).

[Defendi]

My long ones go an hour.  My short ones maybe 15 minutes.  Higher level PCs against higher level foes often go quicker because they have more access to one-shot-kill style spells (like the bard charming half the enemies into switching sides or your cleric start banishing their souls from their bodies.)

[VladD]

So the times are widely all over the place I see? From 15 Mins to 4 hrs and everything in between.

Seems to me that player group size and player interactions are somewhat of a problem. Its not even the "intricate" combat system, or table look up time, or any other story made up by bad press on RM system. In my experience; combat time in D&D and RM is fairly similar, not counting some of those campaign-ending full session combats or the shorter combats in the earlier lvls.

My curiosity is satisfied concerning real world time and I'm pretty certain that I'm not off scale compared to the times mentioned here...

[Cory Magel]

In the end it's all about the fun.  Who cares if a combat takes 6 hours so long as everyone had fun.
Elsewhere I have a tag line that reads: Fun. Balance. Realism. In. That. Order.

[pastaav]

I think there might a difference if you compare the number of rounds executed and if you compare how much real time the battle take. Handling all penalties from crits take time, but these penalties also make the battle end after fewer rounds than if you had deliver a certain number of hits before the opponent go down.

[Zat]

With this post in mind, I actaully took note in our session today:

The party of 7 people are an average 18th level, with a good mix of spell users and combat characters. We had 2 combats:

1. A group of 5 Minor constructs
Total Combat rounds: 4
Total Real time: 1 hour 10 mins - Includes post fight healing, just over an hour if you don't include that.

2. A single 'Battlepede' Construct
Total Combat rounds: 3
Total Real time: 25 mins (no post combat healing)

[VladD]

My observation here is that these seem less dangerous encounters and less representative for "a typical challenging" combat encounter, but no less interesting figures: the fact that 7 players, with plenty of powers to consider, can make solid enough decisions in under an hour to finish a fight is pretty fast IMHO. I play with 6 players and it tends to become bogged down in minor rules "disputes" or questions that are only casually related to the combat encounter. This scales up as the combat encounters become more challenging.

[Cory Magel]

I suspect our combats, and gaming sessions as a whole, take longer simple because it is 50% a social gathering.  The group I play with are people I've known 15-30 years... so there's a lot of BSing and getting side-tracked.

It also depends greatly on the GM's style.  Our usual GM will throw two or three waves of foes, numbering to as many as three or four times the size of the party.  There will be cannon-fodder, middle-men, then the big guys... that kind of thing.  Those fights take a long time.  However if/when running my own I will tend to have a much smaller enemy group that are simply more dangerous.  Having twice as many foes as there are PC's would be a larger scale combat in my little world.  So those fights wouldn't take as long.

[Zat]

Our group has been together for a long time too, and there is plenty of 'BS', but combat is combat 
As for rule disputes, they are very rare.
The main time factor is players considering spells and actions and of course, one fella who feels the need to write everything down before he will roll any dice and then again, after his actions. 

[providence13]

The main time factor is players considering spells and actions and of course, one fella who feels the need to write everything down before he will roll any dice and then again, after his actions. 

Those high levels would give them more options. Sometimes I feel my games have too many choices at 8-9th lvl.
That one fella is dedicated to the declared action! I wouldn't mind that.. 

[Zat]

OK, this weekend's combat (same average 18th level party):
1. Greater Werewolf
Total Combat rounds: 4
Total Real time: 40 mins - No post fight healing

2. 'Ordainer' Demon
Total Combat rounds: 6
Total Real time: 1 hour 35 mins mins plus 20 mins post combat healing (including Life Giving x 2)

These encounters were pretty short, mainly due to the fact that the group were fully prepared in both cases.

BONUS POINTS:
The 'Big Bad Evil Guy' has been using these creatures to create another type of 'creature' and there is another one to go - Can anyone tell me what it is? (My players couldn't)