Clarification: How to handle a caster that can utilize multiple mana sources.

[Terraph]

If a caster can utilize both Personal and Fixed mana, how does one figure the recovery times?

Obviously the power source is chosen at the time of casting, and this will control the casting times, but they differ in PP recovery times.

Assuming the caster uses both types before a rest, what is the PP recovery rate?
- Do the points spent have to be tracked separately (something I'm hoping to avoid)?
- If so, which points are recovered first?
- Could a caster draw from multiple sources fore a single spell?

It has been suggested by my players that I just average the recovery time, but this seems to nerf the ability, somewhat, and demands a cost reduction on buying sources past the first one to compensate.  On top of that I don't think it makes logical sense, which is AS important to me as simplicity.

Anyone have experience or suggestions?

(And please don't come at me with things like "I just don't/won't allow it".  It's a unique and fun addition to spell casting, and I've already decided I WANT to allow it.

Thanks!

[netbat]

This is the problem with using PP as both mana and the bodies ability to use mana. I think the rules hint at only using one type of mana in most cases, but if you are going to use two I think you have to at least keep track of how many PP are spent of each type. I would recover the fixed first, since in theory you still have those "mana points" in your personal battery, you just can't use them since your body can't handle it.

I guess you could use multiple sources in a single spell, but I would require the longest casting time of the sources used. Not sure it would make sense to do so but it could work.

I will note that by adding the tap personal mana or granted mana you lose the advantage of not detecting as magic with the spell or sense.

[Progbaby]

Hmmm...
I'd say that you couldn't use more than a single source for a single spell.
Given that tapping personal mana negates one of the advantages of tapping fixed or ambient mana (not bering detectable by magic unless you are currently casting a spell) I'd go ahead and let the player use the better recovery rate. After all they did pay the DPs to get the second source (so min. of 3/8 of a level). Otherwise a second mana source has very little to no value over tap personal mana.

[netbat]

Given that tapping personal mana negates one of the advantages of tapping fixed or ambient mana (not bering detectable by magic unless you are currently casting a spell) I'd go ahead and let the player use the better recovery rate. After all they did pay the DPs to get the second source (so min. of 3/8 of a level). Otherwise a second mana source has very little to no value over tap personal mana.

I don't know, 15DP is kind of cheap for double the recovery rate and reducing/eliminating the recovery effects of dead zones. Adding tap personal to one of the others is even cheaper for what is essentially a conditional application of greater eloquence worth 40DP for the benefits of casting time on spells less than 10pp and worth even more on higher pp spells.

[Progbaby]

I don't know, 15DP is kind of cheap for double the recovery rate and reducing/eliminating the recovery effects of dead zones. Adding tap personal to one of the others is even cheaper for what is essentially a conditional application of greater eloquence worth 40DP for the benefits of casting time on spells less than 10pp and worth even more on higher pp spells.

Eliminating the recovery effects of dead zones is ribbon ability, unless such zones are common in your campaign worlds. 15DP is reasonable for double recovery, as it doesn't change the downtime of the party. everyone else needs 8 hours. Without a more tangible benefit no character would take it in my campaign setting.

[Zhaleskra]

Rather than choosing the mana source at time of casting, I would have a character with multiple Tap <whatever> Mana talents choose which kind of mana they were using each day, and no switching once the decision has been made for the day. Keep in mind that it is expensive to learn multiple types of mana tapping, as you only get one for free. Keep in mind that Granted and Personal are pretty much the same except that the former can be denied if the gods or just the multiverse are mad at you.

[Progbaby]

Rather than choosing the mana source at time of casting, I would have a character with multiple Tap <whatever> Mana talents choose which kind of mana they were using each day, and no switching once the decision has been made for the day. Keep in mind that it is expensive to learn multiple types of mana tapping, as you only get one for free. Keep in mind that Granted and Personal are pretty much the same except that the former can be denied if the gods or just the multiverse are mad at you.

I like this idea. Everytime a character casts a spell when at full PP they choose which source they are tapping, and that choice applies to every spell they cast until the next time they cast a spell while at full PP.

[Zhaleskra]

Not quite what I meant, as they could recover to full PP before a day change. That is why I said daily. Wake up, decide what kind of mana you're using, locked in for the day.

[Progbaby]

Yes. What I wrote wouldn't require them to be locked in unless they were actually spending PPs. If the point of this discusion is to determine how PPs are recovered it seems punitive to require them to be locked in to a mode when that question is moot. What I wrote would be a similar effect but wouldn't require determining the recovery rate until it was needed to be determined, thus actually providing increased benefit for the relatively steep cost of having multiple sources.

[Zhaleskra]

Because of the very issues that were mentioned earlier: the bookkeeping. If a character with multiple mana sources only has to track one a day, and follows its recovery for that day, boom, less bookkeeping. Also, while other mana sources have a higher recovery rate, they also have a higher PP/round, so spells take more rounds to cast.

This gets me into what I love about HARP, you can have a powerful ability, or a really high starting stat, but at the cost of trading off for something else.

[Progbaby]

The bookkeeping of what I wrote is not any more difficult than what you wrote (I've already instituted it across my games). You still only need to track one mode at a time and it's independent of "day", which in my setting is dependent on which world  you are on.

[Progbaby]

Edit to above: My husband reminded me that what I may consider easy bookeeping, others may not. Your mileage may vary. In a galaxy-spaning science-fantasy setting keeping track of multiple mana sources is a drop in the bucket.

[Zhaleskra]

Yes, well multiple planets or spaceships or stations does raise problems. In that case, make "day" equal to what a "day" would be to the character on their home world. Do what works for you and your players, I was just showing my preference and why I would run it that way.
 
Aside: as someone who studied to be an accountant, sometimes even I find the amount of bookkeeping excessive. A prime example was the detail of attrition of magical items by plane of origin, planes and layers removed in Planescape.