Topic: Situational Awareness - Alertness - Observation - Sense Awareness

[RandalThor]

Some of the skills are there to offset penalties for lack of skill.

Uuuhhh... aren't they all, generally speaking. 

[RandalThor]

Also (and this is probably one of my problems with percentage action stuff, other than the fact that it is a pain to keep track of and just another thing that keeps new players out of RM), isn't 30% of 70% more like 45% so it should be a -45% to the skill attempt? The percentage of the action is its 100% - if you know what I mean. Which means that when you cut down by a percentage, you need to see what that percentage means to the 100% percentage of the skill:

I believe the math problem would look like this (using your example):

70     100
__  =  ___
30       X*

*(42.8571 -  I think, In RM it would be 42)

RM is the detailed, nit-picky game so if they just say the -30 from 70 = -30, they are going off the reservation of their own ideology, I believe. 

PS: You what I find really funny? That the equation I did above is probably the simplest math this board has ever seen. 

[yammahoper]

I use sense awareness skills like alertness,  I restrict these skills from being developed.  An elf may develop sense awareness hearing, while a wolven can develop sense awareness smell.  Thus, these skills are 0% skills that are cheked when appropriate (GM Fiat) and can only be developed by specific races or via talents.

[providence13]

I use sense awareness skills like alertness,  I restrict these skills from being developed.  An elf may develop sense awareness hearing, while a wolven can develop sense awareness smell.  Thus, these skills are 0% skills that are checked when appropriate (GM Fiat) and can only be developed by specific races or via talents.

Yammahoper, I hear ya. That is a good way to control skill acquisition in the game. Ultimately, it's the GM's call and that's a good reminder fro the players.
IMHO, Sense skills can be developed (in real life..) I walked into work the other day, said H

[providence13]

RM is the detailed, nit-picky game so if they just say the -30 from 70 = -30, they are going off the reservation of their own ideology, I believe.

As soon as I learned that %Act didn't mean "percentage math".... I decided to GM!
The math is even easier than you described...
The '%Act' part is only 'percentage' (like the rest of the world use the term) with movement..feet per round.. basically. But it isn't a % (like the rest of the world use the term 'percentage') while you're doing stuff...ie. Activities. It takes 70%Act to use Observation, but you can rush it.
For example:   There's a way to make a quick 40%Act Observation roll. But if you do this, there's a -30 (to the final number). The only reason you have a penalty is because you're "supposed" to do it with the full 70%Act. When using less than the maximum %Act for shenanigans crafty PC's attempt... you have a -1(to the final number) for every 1%Act that you didn't use. 

 

[RandalThor]

I get how it actually works, but was just saying that not doing it by the using more "accurate" math, they were going away from their usual methodology of accuracy. Just the way I feel about it.

[providence13]

Sorry mate. No disrespect intended.

I just got excited because this %Act stuff is finally being used properly in our current game (I think) and it's helping. 

[markc]

Sorry mate. No disrespect intended.

I just got excited because this %Act stuff is finally being used properly in our current game (I think) and it's helping. 

 Yes its nice when everything comes together and makes sense.
MDC

[RandalThor]

No disrespect taken, just wasn't sure if you got what I was saying, but it looks like you do. I am happy you are enjoying the game (always happy about that).

[providence13]

Over the weekend our Token Human #2, Mystic, had a nice spell to increase his hearing while in an old copper mine. He rolled great and I let him hear the bat squeaks a long way down the corridor...
Another character's Mage can't give up his Fire Elementals and I thought that the (enhanced) roar of that fire covered up the noise of Gnolls (Wolven,Varrg) breathing just around the corner.

Perhaps a Meditation/Concentration roll...
(Cyberspace had Sound Editor implants IIRC.)

[providence13]

I know this topic hasn't been touched in quite awhile, but I think I found a mix up in the skill. This could go under Errata or Issues with SoHK.

If you subtract the # of Ranks of relevant Aware-Search Skill from the Ranks of Alertness, you imply that Alertness should always be lower than Aware-Search.
The Difficulty is based on a lower number being easier and it's not 1:1.
(2 Alert) - (1 A-S) = 1 or +1DR

(1 Alert) - (8 A-S) = 7 or +2 DR


If you can develop another skill to modify the DR of the 1st skill, should it read "Alertness subtracted from Aware-Search"?
(2 A-S) - (1 Alert) = 1 or +1DR

(8 A-S) - (10 Alert) = -2 or Same DR

The Alert skill allows the same info as A-S but uses 0%Act and at at higher +DR. So shouldn't it be the higher your Alert, the easier the Task.

I do like this skill. IMHO, FBI agents, Stephen King's Gunslingers, etc. excel at Alertness.

The way it's written, the better you are at Alert, it is more difficult to use A-S. It seems that eventually, your Alertness could be so high, that A-S would be easier..

Or I'm embarrassingly slysdexic. 

[Ynglaur]

FWIW, I use the specific "Sense" skills as overlapping with Observation.  That is, Observation is using all of one's senses, plus perhaps a bit of analysis (i.e. watching boat traffic on a dock, or whatever).  However, there are circumstances where an Observation roll would receive a penalty where a given Sense skill would not.  E.g. Observation might get -30 (or 3 difficulty levels "to the right") to detect an enemy in a dark room, but Sense: Hearing would not.  (However, Sense: Hearing might get a -50 if the enemy were a stationary, sleeping sentry.)  Basically, Observation is a good catch basin for most anyone, but it can be helpful to have specific senses for particular purposes (Sense: Smell might help determine if a drink is poisoned, whereas Observation might require a slight sip, and still have a massive penalty).

For senses, I prefer to slide the Difficulty rating of maneuvers to reflect racial/physiological differences.  My canine companion might be rolling Easy Hearing and Routine Smell checks all day long, whilst his master struggles with Extremely Hard Hearing and Insane (or Impossible) Smell checks.

You get the idea.

[Kristen Mork]

Alertness is a skill that can be used (with 0% activity) in place of Observation, Lie Perception, Locate Hidden, etc.  Given its wide applicability, the intent in SoHK is to ensure that characters cannot rely solely on Alertness in lieu of the Searching skills.  Thus, if you have lots of ranks in Alertness (and few ranks in the corresponding Searching skill), the difficulty of the maneuver is increased.  What I had observed was characters with a large profession bonus in Awareness skills plus a large In bonus forgoing Searching skills because they could rely on Alertness.  The rules in SoHK help to ensure that the hyper-alert character (spending 0% activity) will not be better at Locating Hidden than the Rogue, unless the hyper-alert character also develops Locate Hidden.  A simpler game mechanic is to use the lesser of Alertness and the relevant Searching skill.  IIRC, I didn't choose this approach because Alertness maneuvers (at 0%) activity would still rarely be harder than Searching maneuvers (at 60+% activity).

[Kristen Mork]

If you subtract the # of Ranks of relevant Aware-Search Skill from the Ranks of Alertness, you imply that Alertness should always be lower than Aware-Search.
The Difficulty is based on a lower number being easier and it's not 1:1.
(2 Alert) - (1 A-S) = 1 or +1DR

(1 Alert) - (8 A-S) = 7 or +2 DR

The first example is correct.  I you have two ranks of Alertness and one rank of Locate Hidden and you walk past a secret door (Medium difficulty), the maneuver becomes Hard.  If you search for the door, it's a Medium maneuver.

The second example is not correct.  If you have one rank of Alertness and eight ranks of Locate Hidden and walk past the same door, the maneuver is Medium, just as if you are searching for the door.  (1 - 8 = -7, which uses the 0 or less entry in the table.)

[providence13]

Thanks for the correction, mate.
But do I read it correctly, that you never want more than 1 Rank in Alertness? As long as you have a few Ranks in Aware-Search. This way, you always have a negative number (excusing my typo above). Now you will always have the 'Equal Difficulty' mod.

This doesn't feel right.

[Kristen Mork]

Thanks for the correction, mate.
But do I read it correctly, that you never want more than 1 Rank in Alertness? As long as you have a few Ranks in Aware-Search. This way, you always have a negative number (excusing my typo above). Now you will always have the 'Equal Difficulty' mod.

This doesn't feel right.

You want as many ranks in Alertness as you have in the various Searching skills on which you rely.  As long as this is true, for those skills, you can use Alertness (at 0% activity) or the Searching skill (at 60+%) at the same difficulty.  Of course, the Searching skill will probably have a better bonus because it uses the standard progression.

Perhaps the most fair approach is for the effective number of ranks in Alertness to be limited by the number of ranks in the related Searching skill.

Basically, it doesn't make much sense to me for a character with little skill in Locate Hidden to suck at searching for secret doors, but to notice them (without every trying) simply because he has lots of skill in Alertness.

[providence13]

Thanks for your time and responses.