Author Topic: Arcane Bolt (Read 4014 times)

kreider204 · « **on:** February 20, 2009, 06:43:52 PM »

Under the scaling options for Arcane Bolt, it says:

"Increase Damage (each 1d10 hits? 5d6 max) +2 PP"

I assume the "5d6" should read "5d10"?

After all, I play HARP, I know not of this "d6" of which you speak . . .

Rasyr-Mjolnir · « **Reply #1 on:** February 20, 2009, 06:46:13 PM »

Yes, it should.

kreider204 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 20, 2009, 06:48:18 PM »

That was quick, thanks!

Karizma · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:07:17 PM »

I wonder how *THAT* typo happened!

kreider204 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2009, 08:57:58 PM »

hee hee

Pat · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2009, 11:12:28 PM »

I've been playing HARP for ages and never picked that up....Thanks

RandalThor · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2009, 12:56:02 AM »

Personally I do not like the fact that this spell goes away from the way everything else is done in the game. Instead, I go with it starting off as a tiny Impact crit, with it being able to be staged up for a high cost per stage - like 5 PP or something.

WoeRie · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2009, 01:34:52 AM »

Quote from: RandalThor on February 21, 2009, 12:56:02 AM

Personally I do not like the fact that this spell goes away from the way everything else is done in the game. Instead, I go with it starting off as a tiny Impact crit, with it being able to be staged up for a high cost per stage - like 5 PP or something.

But then you have simply copied the Elemental Bolt: Earth, with a more expensive scaling option for higher crits. I think that would be a bit overpowered for an Universal spell.

Karizma · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2009, 01:50:10 AM »

It is a bit different, but I don't mind it. And as WoeRie said, changing it to a Tiny Impact would make it Earth Elemental Bolt. All in all, I think that Arcane Bolt is a D&D-esque spell, that would be sorely out-of-place in Rolemaster, but here in HARP it can work.

However, the only problem is if you have a different combat system, for instance, if you upped the "Deadly" to make combat go faster. You would have to up the deadly in Arcane Bolt, or it would be weak and useless. (I would say increase the die size, maybe to d12).

Rasyr-Mjolnir · « **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:32:59 AM »

The idea behind the Arcane Bolt was to create an attack spell that anybody could learn, but that wasn't as powerful as the Elemental Bolts (hence no crit rolls). It was mostly something that dainty ladies might learn to chase away that mugger in the evening...

RandalThor · « **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2009, 07:42:49 PM »

Quote from: WoeRie on February 21, 2009, 01:34:52 AM

But then you have simply copied the Elemental Bolt: Earth, with a more expensive scaling option for higher crits. I think that would be a bit overpowered for an Universal spell.

Ok, maybe make the crit type different, make the scaling cost more, and maybe even have a scaling maximum - like a medium sized crit would be the largest it could go. I just think that having little "special cases" is a way to get a more confusing game. The reason most games have been going for the "everything is done the same way" rules systems, is that the people who play the games want it that way (for various reasons, ease of learning/use being only one).

Quote from: Karizma on February 21, 2009, 01:50:10 AM

However, the only problem is if you have a different combat system, for instance, if you upped the "Deadly" to make combat go faster. You would have to up the deadly in Arcane Bolt, or it would be weak and useless. (I would say increase the die size, maybe to d12).

As I prefer H&S, I prefer it to be a little more deadly, but still would much rather it be handled the same way as EVERYTHING else. (Qualify: I do not know every single little aspect of the game so far, but have read over a lot of it, and so far this is the only oddity I have found.)

Quote from: Rasyr on February 21, 2009, 10:32:59 AM

The idea behind the Arcane Bolt was to create an attack spell that anybody could learn, but that wasn't as powerful as the Elemental Bolts (hence no crit rolls). It was mostly something that dainty ladies might learn to chase away that mugger in the evening...

With the rules as they are, doesn't it take a non-spell user to take the Arcane Power talent to gain the ability to cast spells (or, just go into a profession that has access to spells, right?) - then still have to pay 4 DPs per rank to learn?

Either way, it means that the individual has spent a bit of DPs to learn that spell, so allowing them to get crits with it is OK by me, especially if the crits are limited in their power (as I mentioned above).

Plus, if someone wants to learn how to attack something and they do not have magic, then do what everyone else does - learn to use a weapon. It's all the rage for a reason.

Pat · « **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2009, 10:41:14 PM »

Quote from: RandalThor on February 21, 2009, 07:42:49 PM

Quote from: Rasyr on February 21, 2009, 10:32:59 AM
The idea behind the Arcane Bolt was to create an attack spell that anybody could learn, but that wasn't as powerful as the Elemental Bolts (hence no crit rolls). It was mostly something that dainty ladies might learn to chase away that mugger in the evening...

With the rules as they are, doesn't it take a non-spell user to take the Arcane Power talent to gain the ability to cast spells (or, just go into a profession that has access to spells, right?) - then still have to pay 4 DPs per rank to learn?

That's not quite right. Any character (including non-spell casters) can cast Universal spells. Yes it does cost 4 dp's a rank for non-favoured but the character does not need Arcane Power talent to cast them.

jurasketu · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2009, 11:37:16 PM »

I think the STUN scaling option of Arcane Bolt is the best part of the spell. So for 6 PP, you have a chance to stun the bad guy that's keeping your best fighter tied up in knots parrying or the unblocked flanker. For 10 PP, you can stun two targets. Jolts only does a single target (albeit more cheaply). So, its actually a useful, cheaply acquired spell for low level wizards of several professions other than mages and harpers. Timely use can really turn the tide of a battle.

Robin

RandalThor · « **Reply #13 on:** February 22, 2009, 01:18:37 AM »

Quote from: Pat on February 21, 2009, 10:41:14 PM

That's not quite right. Any character (including non-spell casters) can cast Universal spells. Yes it does cost 4 dp's a rank for non-favoured but the character does not need Arcane Power talent to cast them.

Ok, and going strickly by the book (which I never do

) that is so, but in my games I make the players either choose a spellcasting profession or a talent that allows them access to spellcasting - though in the latter case they would still cost more to develop. So, this means that someone had to spend points to be able to learn that Arcane Bolt spell. With that the case, it (Arcane Bolt) doing crits isn't a huge deal.

But beyond that, I just don't think it is a good idea to break from the set rules structure with "special cases." Or else you end up with games like AD&D and Palladium, different rules for different actions. Not condusive to a smooth game session, imo.

Rasyr-Mjolnir · « **Reply #14 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:20:53 AM »

It isn't so much a breaking from the rules as an additional method of dealing damage.

Look at the spells Drain Life and Harm -- Harm is almost exactly the same spell as Arcane Bolt, the only major difference being that Arcane Bolt is OB/DB based and Harm is RR based.

The rules for resolving the Arcane Bolt ARE the same as for Elemental Bolts (OB versus DB), the only difference is that this spell can only deliver a limited amount of damage. Changing how the damage is determined (and as noted, there are multiple ways of determining damage already in the game in other spells) is just adding variety, not "breaking from the set rules".

choc · « **Reply #15 on:** February 22, 2009, 01:07:01 PM »

Quote from: Rasyr on February 22, 2009, 06:20:53 AM

Look at the spells Drain Life and Harm -- Harm is almost exactly the same spell as Arcane Bolt, the only major difference being that Arcane Bolt is OB/DB based and Harm is RR based.

1)Do we talk about the same spell?
Arcane Bolt, spell type "attack", RR "magic", damage 1d10. I don't see anything about DB. RR lost - damage applied.

=====

2) A question about the STUN scaling option. Stun applies after the magic RR. Get the target another stamina RR to beat the stun effect?

jurasketu · « **Reply #16 on:** February 22, 2009, 01:21:13 PM »

Quote

A question about the STUN scaling option. Stun applies after the magic RR. Get the target another stamina RR to beat the stun effect?

That's a good question 'choc'. We rule that its a 'magical' stun and hence no stamina check to shake it off.

Robin

Rasyr-Mjolnir · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:03:11 PM »

choc -- you are right -- Arcane Bolt is a RR spell, not a DB spell. sigh.....

Stun - if the spell is scaled to include stun, No, you do not get a second roll to resist the stun. If you failed the RR, then you get hit with the effect. Spells that cause Stun directly (from the spell), never get a second RR against the stun.

Spells that cause damage (which could include stun - i.e. elemental bolts), usually do not require a RR, so for those you would get a RR against the stuns.

that make sense....

jasonbrisbane · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:17:52 PM »

So its one RR per effect. - if you get a RR versus magic for one effect then you dont get another one.

But if you get hit with a elemental bolt spell, or weapon, you didnt get a RR prior so you get a RR versus the stun.

So against one attack, if you fail a RR you get the effects - no second or third RR's for one attack!

Rasyr-Mjolnir · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2009, 07:12:07 PM »

Not exactly the way I would phrase it, but essentially yes.

Stun as the effect of a spell is just like damage from a spell, or any other unwanted attack spell cast on you. You resist or you receive the effect, end of story. The source is magic, plain and simple, thus no Stamina Rolls.

Stuns from wounds received are not magical, they are a physical side effect from being hit extremely hard. You have a chance to push through it and to function normally (i.e. a Stamina roll). Elemental attack spells create the element and then shoot it at you. The attack IS physical (at least partially, or else shields would not work against them and neither would armor), not a magical impinging of the aura.

magic versus physical, that is the criteria to use...

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Author Topic: Arcane Bolt (Read 4014 times)