Topic: Random Magic Staff Thought...

[Joshua24601]

Would you guys allow a spell mastered casting of the Magic Staff spells (EssCo) to be used on a pole arm?  Something that's a wood staff with a metal axe, spear head, or blade...

[Arioch]

No, the Magic Staff list is already very powerful for being a closed spell list(keep in mind that's the only spell list that lets you store up to five spells, without even limiting the casting of other spells meanwhile!), so I fear that doing something similar would "break the balance" of the game.
As a side note I don't allow to develop Magic Staff as a normal closed list, but only as a Base list: pure Essence users may select it as an additional base for their professions, other must develop it as a "Base - Other" spell list.

[Fornitus]

 My wifes Arcaine Demonoligist uses that list. RM2 basicaly. Verry powerful as it is. I toned it down a little by requiring her to seek out "special" wood for the staff for anything over 10th lvl on that list. She will need to get even better staff if she caries it up past 20th lvl effects.

 Also, I read it as kinda like her particular type of familiar (without intelengence) since it is so attuned to her specificaly. In  my scenario she therefore has to go get the staff herself. That way nobody elses taint is on it before she gets it. She is considering trying to go with a Mithril staff or something she wont need to replace every 10 lvls or so. Havent decided if metal will work, but if I alow it she will have to mine the ore and forge it compleatly herself since any other person would "taint" the required conection between her and her Staff.

[yammahoper]

Yes, a hafted weapon would work great.  Heck, so would a two handed sword.

lynn

[mocking bird]

Don't see why not as it does say it can be metal.  However you would accrue inorganic spell casting penalties for metal bits on it.

Sidenote - anybody ever hit the >50lbs living organic matter casting penalty?

[Joshua24601]

Sidenote - anybody ever hit the >50lbs living organic matter casting penalty?

I was once carrying this little green Muppet on my back...

[markc]

 I use an alternate method, I allow the list to be cast on any weapon but I increase the penalty for a non staff weapon.

MDC

[rdanhenry]

Would you guys allow a spell mastered casting of the Magic Staff spells (EssCo) to be used on a pole arm?  Something that's a wood staff with a metal axe, spear head, or blade...

I think differing opinions on this idea come from different types of campaigns. In a high-powered campaign with lots of available magic, you'll be kicking butt with spells, so the weapon is just a style thing and no big deal.

In a low-magic campaign, magical staves will be rare enough that a walking staff would be able to be carried in places you won't be allowed to carry a weapon into or where the weapon would attract attention. This makes it balanced against having a weapon and your magic staff in hand at the same time.

Campaigns in the middle, this situation could be too beneficial to the spell-user in question. Balance is always context dependent.

[FatSteve]

I think I would allow this, since any time a spell user gets into combat, his +9 OB with that weapon is going to get him in trouble...

I had a player ask to use both the Magic Staff list and the Warrior's Weapon list on the same staff.  (Warrior Mages... sheesh!)  Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.  I should have let him do it, and then had someone break it at a bad time...   

[yammahoper]

I should have let him do it, and then had someone break it at a bad time... 

 

Yes.  You should have.

[Dark Schneider]

As its name says, 'staff', it is not a coincidence, it is a limiting factor.

[Joshua24601]

As its name says, 'staff', it is not a coincidence, it is a limiting factor.

There are plenty of spell lists that don't relate/involve the title of the spell list exactly.  Hell, some lists have spells that seem to have almost opposite effects of their title.
I think it would be in error to use the title as the final, or even significant rule in a lists effects...

To me... the priority in interpreting spells is:
1. GM.
2. Any special notes at the bottom of the list regarding the spells.
3. The spell's description
...
...
..
...
114. The spell list's title

However I do also agree this is a powerful list... and it's effects should be balanced...
As pointed out, the huge danger to a weapon is breakage, which could leave a caster really hurting.  Also pointed out, the fact that weapons could be taken away while walking sticks could make it past the guards (who are protecting the cursed king of Gondor)..
Another possible issue could be the weapon being permanently taken away, be it by theft, incarceration, or other means.  (this is also a danger of a staff though)....
Finally, another nice balancing factor could be the suggested special materials required...

All factored in, it could really make a caster think twice about unsheathing their sword, and risking being useless for (I can't quite recall the list's specifics) like 6 weeks, + whatever time it took to find replacement materials and build a new sword.

[markc]

 Joshua24601,
 I think you have pointed out that there can be game balancing factors if you allow alternate rulings for what the Mage Staff spell list can enchant. I know my player thought real hard about if he wanted to cast the spell on a metal weapon or not. He thought about what would happen if the cutlass was lost, or what would happen if he found a new or better one and would he be able to recast the spell list on a magic cutlass. One of the big ones was what was my setting like, how do people behave in towns, do they collect weapons? Is there a weapon tax? or sword tax?

 IMO for my game there were quite a few balancing factors that the player had to think about and worry about every time a new situation was encountered. One of the big ones was when the group was captured by another group and he did not have his weapon so he was at a big minus to cast spells. In my game this is big as in general all I require is for the caster to not roll below an 05 for the spell to go off. He was really sweating when he had to cast a  spell so the group could go free.

 But in the end IMO the GM has the final say as it is his game world. Some GM's can change there mind over time and some cannot. If a payer comes to me and asks for something I might say no or I might say lets try it for a could of games and if it does not work then I will switch it back. But often times I can give the player a very good reason why somethings work the way they do. And it can be very interesting to explain a rule to a player and thenhave it changed by some game world event, location, creature or false assumption by the PC or group.

MDC

[Dark Schneider]

There are plenty of spell lists that don't relate/involve the title of the spell list exactly.  Hell, some lists have spells that seem to have almost opposite effects of their title.
I think it would be in error to use the title as the final, or even significant rule in a lists effects...

No, that is not the meaning I am talking about, if you look at alchemy, we can see that more powerfull effects are only available for staffs, as Magic Staff are powerfull effects, then a staff must be used, for that I say that the name 'Magical Staff' is not a coincidence, the list is thought to be used with staff items from begining.

What happens with staff/spear?, we see that a spear pole can be a staff, so you could use some options:

- Use an adding accessory for the staff so you can convert it in a spear within about 1-2 min. (it must be good fixed).
- The spear head must have the same bonus (+5, +10) than the staff to use the staff bonus, it is not enough to have a staff +10 with normal head, a weapon must have a bonus in all its parts.
- To use magical staff powers, you must remove the accessory to return it to 'staff' state, usually is not allowed to use staff powers (i.e. charged item) in other type of weapons.
- You could allow to use magic staff powers but requiring a SCSM.

This is only an example about how it could be managed but you can use what you like more.

[providence13]

this may be 4 mths old, but...

I love the idea that this spell list is a real limiting factor for mages.
 
Penalties:
Broken -30 for 2wks AND take 50% hits!
             
Lost      -20 for 3mths (odd... vs Broken)
             
Must be in hand OR -20 to ALL spell casting!
             
One hand occupied so caster can NEVER have the 2 hands free (+10) bonus

My idea is that an area may allow mages (in a magic prohibitive area) IF they belong to The Guild AND they take this list. The populace believe that the mages are somewhat controlled because of the staff crutch.

And... since the staff can be turned into a Familiar and then subject to Familiar enhancing spells... Allow them to stack all they want! If they loose it.... It's going to be bad news...

GM: Hey buddy, help me work some figures here.
Your staff is broken, which also means your "special weapon is broken and since you turned it into a beast...and then your familiar... carry the 2.... and your familiar was turned into a young padawan... which some of the townsfolk think is your fault a mute youth died under your care.... oh just burn your character sheet!
     

[GrumpyOldFart]

A houserule I made on this entire genre of spells back forever ago (in RM2) was that you had to make the item, in its entirety, yourself. Want to cast it on a weapon made of wood, leather and metal? No problem. But you'll have to go through the entire creation process, starting from cutting a branch or tree, killing and skinning an animal, and digging the ore out of the ground. If you want it to be yours, it has to be yours and no one else's throughout the entire process.
Granted, much has changed since then. But the basic principle is simple: If you want to expand the powers and options of something, do so. And make sure you bump the cost by all the traffic will bear. Don't forget that "cost" has many, many more applications than mere money, either.

[providence13]

I respect your campaign, and yet that seems awfully harsh.

In many games, a PC can begin with a +1 spell adder. If they also pick this List, IMHO let 'em start w/ it.

The potential "nerfing" seems to be limiting enough. "Why punish them twice?" is a phrase I like and used here often.

[GrumpyOldFart]

Well keep in mind that for a staff, walking stick, etc, it's not really limiting at all. Want to start out with a staff enchanted with this list? Easy. If you have the list, the only other thing you need is for your character's background environment to be from somewhere there are trees. At some point before the beginning of the game, you went and cut a branch and trimmed it out, it took you perhaps half an hour and required virtually no skill at all.
But for those players who like to "push the envelope" in all things? You want the non magical +5 2 handed sword you started the game with to be your "personal magic staff", even though you bought it in a shop? Um, no. Even then, I've left a loophole. Sure, it can be your "personal magic staff".... if the shop is owned by your dad the weaponsmith, he's been teaching you all your life, this particular sword is the only piece of work *you* did that ever really impressed him, etc, etc....
Even with that, perhaps it's still a little harsh. But then, I've been accused more than once of being "the most anti-heroic GM ever", and I personally am okay with that.

[jolt]

You want the non magical +5 2 handed sword you started the game with to be your "personal magic staff", even though you bought it in a shop? Um, no.

I agree.  Though personally I removed the spell list from my game entirely.  I don't miss it.  If I were to really do a game where a wizard's staff was something special I would make it some kind of scaleable gift rather than a spell list.

jolt

[providence13]

Mage in my group has 8th level Magic Staff....

That's just wrong!!