Topic: Acceleration and drowning.

[Deeman]

Couple of questions for a new player/GM.

!. Moving at, say a sprint, in 2 seconds from standing still seems a reach.  I was thinking of requiring movement of the next lower rate the previous round.  First round walk, second you can run, etc..  Anyone do this or see it messing with game mechanics too much?

I like water hazards in games.  I was looking at the drowning rule and it seems overly generous.  A 90 con character could hold his breath ( 90 + 8 ) *2 =  196 rounds or 3 minutes 16 seconds.  A 10 BMR character with a 90 con could possibly swim 980 ft underwater given a good swimming skill and not too many unfortunate fumbles.  I'm looking at instances like exploring submurged parts of a tomb or diving down to a sunken ship.  Seems I'd have to make the distances so great to make it a challenge that it would seem silly.  Advice?

[Right Wing Wacko]

Add strong currents that force the character to use 2x the air or a maze-like underwater system that has many dead-ends and few air pockets...

[Deeman]

Oooo.  I like the maze idea very much.

[Arioch]

Plus, remember that underwater vision is difficult (without using magical aid) and characters could spend a lot of time just doing perception rolls to understand where they are and what it is going on around there, because they are probably not used to the underwater enviroment...

[Chris Seal]

!. Moving at, say a sprint, in 2 seconds from standing still seems a reach.

Some food for thought.

100 m sprint takes roughly 10 seconds. Roughly 300 feet in 5 rounds, at BMR of 10' per round a sprint is 50' per round so 300' is roughly 6 rounds which seems to gel reasonably well with reality   

[Mando]

Go to your office, take your desktop and strap it on your back: now you're wearing an armor.

And try now to run for 100 m in the said office: you're trying to move in a crowded dungeon room.

And now, do you still think you can run these 100 m in 10 seconds?




Very fast movement and very short rounds are two of the things that are annoying me in my current HARP games, and I think I might go and re-visit these after my current campaign arc is done.

The idea above, one pace after the other one is more realistic once you're engaged in combat.

On a flat plain and without armor or stress, this is another matter, of course. You just have to remember that not everyone is an olympic athlete.

[Dhruan]

Don't know about the HARP system but is the breath holding time for simply staying submerged and holding ones breath? In real world, for example when diving, increased physical activity means increased consumption of oxygen. These activities include swimming, trying to swim faster (the faster you go the more resistance the water offers) or lifting/moving obstacles/barriers etc. Increased physical activity can seriously cut the time available for underwater operations in scuba diving with self contained oxygen reserves and should apply also to unassisted diving.

[Crypt]

or see it messing with game mechanics too much?

I think so.
As far as every objects are subject to the same physical laws this is not unfair to ignore acceleration.

(but it can be usefull for starships travels)

[Chris Seal]

Go to your office, take your desktop and strap it on your back: now you're wearing an armor.

And try now to run for 100 m in the said office: you're trying to move in a crowded dungeon room.

And now, do you still think you can run these 100 m in 10 seconds? Smiley

Actually its not quite as bad as you'd think. The weight is fairly well distributed over your body and with a good belt centred on your hips (at least with chain it is can't really comment about plate). It slows you down but not as much as you'd think. The main problem is running 100 m  .

As for the office - thats a maneuver roll there isn't it 

BTW I never could run 100m in 10s but it is within the realms of human ability to do so

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

!. Moving at, say a sprint, in 2 seconds from standing still seems a reach.  I was thinking of requiring movement of the next lower rate the previous round.  First round walk, second you can run, etc..  Anyone do this or see it messing with game mechanics too much?

In real life, a person can go from a dead stop to a Sprint or even Dash without a problem, though that is usually for unencumbered people.

Now, you could set it up so that encumbrance both limits max pace as well as limits how many paces you can increase your speed each round. Just make sure that your players know this in advance.

I like water hazards in games.  I was looking at the drowning rule and it seems overly generous.  A 90 con character could hold his breath ( 90 + 8 ) *2 =  196 rounds or 3 minutes 16 seconds.  A 10 BMR character with a 90 con could possibly swim 980 ft underwater given a good swimming skill and not too many unfortunate fumbles.  I'm looking at instances like exploring submurged parts of a tomb or diving down to a sunken ship.  Seems I'd have to make the distances so great to make it a challenge that it would seem silly.  Advice?

1) It is meant to be generous, not realistic.
2) The average person would have a Con of 50-60, a character with a Con of 90 is an exceptional character, and thus should be able to hold his breath much longer than the average person.

3) Reread the Swimming skill description - as you seem to have missed a few things.
   3A) Swimming speed is 1/2 BMR, not BMR.
   3B) Wearing Armor while swimming increases the difficulty
   3C) If swimming while wearing armor, you get triple the maneuver penalties, in addition to the increased difficulty.

[Deeman]

Upon reading all the comments on acceleration and considering the difficulties slowly accelerating would cause at the begining of an encounter, I think I'll leave pace alone.   

Rasyr I believe if you check my math above you'll see that the 980ft over 196 rounds takes into account 5ft a round.  I didn't comment on armor penalties, because they are so harsh( as they should be) for the most part, most every player would strip it off to swim.  Good point on the average person having a 50-60 stat.  I'll have to keep that in mind when looking at such things.  I'll just have to work the numbers very carefully to give the players a good underwater challenge.

[Dr_Sage]

Don't know about the HARP system but is the breath holding time for simply staying submerged and holding ones breath? In real world, for example when diving, increased physical activity means increased consumption of oxygen. These activities include swimming, trying to swim faster (the faster you go the more resistance the water offers) or lifting/moving obstacles/barriers etc. Increased physical activity can seriously cut the time available for underwater operations in scuba diving with self contained oxygen reserves and should apply also to unassisted diving.

Bingo!!

I was thinking the same thing.

The problem is not the rules as they are. Holding a breath for 3 minutes is not a problem for professionals (in game terms = fantasy tough guys).

You could just add another house rule to take into account the oxigem consumption while stressed, for example:

* Relaxed = rules as they are.
* Rushed, swiming 2x pace = 1/2 time
* Dashing, fighting, strugling = 1/4 time

I used to swim underwater a LOT, and I do remmember that I could swinm back and forward underwater 4 times in my pool (9 meters= 72 meters with the help of the walls) when I kept a nice and easy pace and kept my body, and MIND relaxed. And I assure you I am a poor swimer.

BUT when I wrestle my brothers inside the pool (eventually underwater), I used to loose my breath in like 20 seconds.

PS: once a girl choked me out cold underwater in less than 3 seconds... oh man! THAT was embarassing.