Topic: Your Advice Needed

[Defendi]

I was looking on RPGNow and saw that Expeditious Retreat Press has taken two chapters from their main Magical Midieval Society book and released them as a free PDF on cities.  I was wondering if there was a chapter from the Campaign Setting for TEoH that you think would hook you in and make you want to buy the whole book.  I was thinking Appendix 1, but I wanted your oppinions.  Would you buy more if you had Appendix One or would you either not be hooked or feel that Appenidx One was complete enough that you wouldn't want more?

Your thoughts?

[Elton Robb]

Don't have a copy to give a thought. 

[Mungo]

Hi,

I am not sure about this.

Reason: without knowing more about the setting and without having the adventure, I don't think the information in Appendix 1 is really useful (f.e. there are references to organizations). It is also relatively generic, so it does not bring people into the setting.

What I would suggest to try to get people excited about the world and the setting, and the best thing to do that would be f.e. short stories like Ulcer. If people get excited, they will more likely invest in the corresponding RPG books.

BR
Juergen

[Grafton]

Appendix 1 is very large, and would be giving a huge amount of material away. Maybe 184-196, the brief descriptions of the fiefs. Chapter 4 would be very cool too, but again its alot of info.

I think it ultimately depends on what gets the prospective buyer enthused about the product. Me, I love the areas listed above, while others may get more excited about Chapter 3 (History of Mortal Realm) or Chapter 5 (Power Groups).

I personally think it is a great product for the price and look forward to more, even though I'm not currently running them.

[Defendi]

cool.  Other opinions?

[ironmaul]

What I would suggest to try to get people excited about the world and the setting, and the best thing to do that would be f.e. short stories like Ulcer. If people get excited, they will more likely invest in the corresponding RPG books.

BR
Juergen

Ditto.

[Defendi]

Right now Ulcer isn't moving off the shelf.  Are you suggesting I offer it for free?

[ironmaul]

I have always thought that having novels/short stories to get people into a companies rpg is a good start. No, don't offer it for free, your work is worth the price you put on it (and more). Perhaps an option is to write a chapter/episode of your game world and submit it to The Guild Adventurer. I'm not sure if Nicholas would go for this but there's no harm in asking. Although it's a small audience that will view TGA, it at least gives you a doorway into the people you're trying to sell your pruduct too.That way you get paid for your work and it exposes EoH to the public (win, win situation I reckon).

Hope this helps Rob.

[Defendi]

Those are good points.  I've been keeping this lowkey and not talking about it in Dev Journals becasue sales of Ulcer were so bad, but I started a sequel tonight.  It's called (at the moment) A Crooked Life and it picks up Shorvan Leonedovich after the events of Ulcer and the trauma he suffered there (not to give anything away).  I suspect it will be part 1 in a six part story, following his continued career as a Witch-Hunter.

I've also been working on a novel, called The Siege of Heaven.  It's currently taking place in the Echoes of Heaven but I make no promises with this one.  If I can sell it to a publisher but not as an Echoes product, I will.  If not, I'll probably have to release it as a serial, as I don't foresee sales being high enough to release it as a novel by then, but we'll see.  Maybe.  Anything I do with a novel is probably two years off.  I write them pretty quick but I need to let them set for a bit between drafts.

Anyway, just an update.  I'm working on the new short story because of this thread.  Tonight is fiction night and I had it scheduled for the novel.

[ironmaul]

Sorry to hear about the bad sales Rob. I do wish you the best of luck in your venture, takes a lot of nerve to do what your doing. By the way, I'll be keen to see what you've done for TGA's next issue.

[Defendi]

It's no worries.  It's just the fiction that isn't selling, and that's a hard sell.  People aren't used to buying short stories in PDFs.  Casual buyers think they can do without and many others don't seek them out.  My growth audience is on RPGnow and not many people go to E-Books, which is the category.  I can't blame them, most self-published fiction is so awful one would rather bleed from the eyes. 

Keep hyping it.  Since I know someone out there likes reading it, I'll go back to writing it more often.  I enjoy it and it isn't very time intensive (I write a short story in a single afternoon most of the time), so the low sales aren't that big of an issue.

[ironmaul]

.....My growth audience is on RPGnow and not many people go to E-Books, which is the category.  I can't blame them, most self-published fiction is so awful one would rather bleed from the eyes. 

  I have to admit that I like to sit down in a comfy chair and read a printed book over a ebook on my laptop.

Keep hyping it.  Since I know someone out there likes reading it, I'll go back to writing it more often.  I enjoy it and it isn't very time intensive (I write a short story in a single afternoon most of the time), so the low sales aren't that big of an issue.

>sigh< I wish I had that abillity >goes off to sharpen pencil< 

[Mungo]

Hi,

If you want to push sales by giving stuff for free, then Ulcer (and any other short stories you have written) would be my choice. Especially when considering that they are not selling well (damage to your business is small compared to the impact after we pushed it on the hot sellers list).

One other thing: I saw on rpgnow that f.e. Feist's "Magician" is now converted into a comic. Did you ever think about that?

BR
Juergen

[Michael Petrea]

I have Echoes and I am anxiously awaiting Product 2.  What got me to buy Product 1 was the cover art and the maps so I don't think that helps much.  Having purchased and read about half of it now, it is easily the best product/value that I have purchased from RPGNow, so it automatically sells Product 2.  Having a sourcebook, adventure and maps all in one bundle was a good selling point for me.

I also agree with above recomendations that putting out a short piece of fiction for free is a good idea.  Whether or not it is Ulcer or part of another story line is up to you.  But, I think it should be an introductory story that leaves the reader hanging with the last page being an advertisement for the product.  The ad should point out that you get a sourcebook, an adventure and CC maps and that you can learn more when you own the product.  So, in that vein, maybe the story should be some sort of lead in to the adventure that is included.  The hope being that the reader gets caught up in the plot and then wants to play it out in-game.  So that with every product that you release you put out a "trailer" of sorts for free download.

As for parts of the product itself, I don't know of single chapter that would stand alone well and make me want to buy it.  I think the EoH preview pdf gave a good taste of the setting.

[mocking bird]

  I have to admit that I like to sit down in a comfy chair and read a printed book over a ebook on my laptop.

Me too - also because of a bad back I can't sit at the computer that long.

While Appendix 1 is good it really doesn't showcase what the EoH setting is.  I would suggest the cosmology, religious structure and/or the bit about the Archfiends.  It is these unique aspects of EoH that could get the imagination of potential buyers going not just stats on towns and economies.  I am not saying the Ludremon material is bad or anything, it just isn't flashy as a promotional piece.

[Defendi]

Well, the purpose for the Ludrmeon material wasn't to be directly promitional, the demo handles that.  The purpose was to try to give them something they could find useful in their games, that might lead them to a purchase.  That's really what I'm looking for here, a free product that's actually a useful product to them.  Don't think I'm not valuing your comments though.  I might redo the marketing style stuff as per your suggestions as well. 

[Dr. Joe]

Does it have to be from the campaign setting? Otherwise, the first part of the teaser in The Throne of God might do what it's name suggests?

[Defendi]

No, that's a good idea.

[mocking bird]

Or something involving one of the orders - Sons of Almia?  Unless that is in the Feldric's...Or a 'Ulcer Hunter' organization to tie in with the short story.  It could use RM TP's, HARP clerical order and d20 presteige class.  I realize you are trying to avoid the PC's for as long as possible but d20 fans just eat that stuff up.

[Defendi]

Wow.  I just lost 16 pages.  Basically everything I wrote on the short story after 11 PM last night.  Most of the pages vanished when I hit save and the computer crashed.  The backup has all the pages missing too.  Its my backup from last night that actually has 8 full pages.

I think I need to take a break.  Come back to the short story next week.

Oh, well.  I had just finished, too.