Author Topic: Customer Reviews  (Read 6302 times)

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Offline Defendi

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Customer Reviews
« on: July 23, 2006, 06:57:00 AM »
Anyone who bought the product feel like talking about it?  This is the place.  :)
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 07:24:06 AM »
Here is a sample Cory Magel sent me of his upcoming The Echoes of Heaven review:

An interesting mix of real world historical influences ranging from religious to cultural, infused with a wide range of fantasy characteristics without going too overboard on any of them, blended together to make a surprisingly original setting. (Sounds like I'm describing a fancy drink does it?) There really is something for everyone, from the 12th Century Religious Crusader or Viking Raider to the Ravenloft and White Wolf crowd.
 
This is the kind of non-rules specific material I'd like to see more of. That is, material that can be used by beginning GM's or GM's that simply don't have the time to work up stuff on this level of scope and detail. Oh... and conversion notes built in as seperate PDF's of the same 'book' for d20, HARP, Rolemaster and HERO? No converting your stuff from one system to another just cause you love the setting? That's what I call getting your moneys worth.
 
What will be a series of adventures that starts with "The Throne of God" is just what many gamers have been asking for what with the lack of pre-made modules being put out these days. To have a set of adventures that will make up a campaign intended to take characters to 30th level is like gold to many gamers.
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2006, 11:01:04 PM »
Our first RPGNow Staff review came in.  Its for the d20 version but the information is relevant to them all.

http://edge.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?reviews_id=13637&

This is the most well-thought out of the fan comments:

http://edge.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?mid=762&reviews_id=13636&
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline Grafton

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2006, 02:25:59 AM »
Concerning the first review, I agree with both the reviewer and the response. I think what the text means is, in essence, "It's up to the GM." That is frustrating if you are looking for cookie cutter information, but works well for the GM that understands the dynamic nature of the Taint and Spark.

Admittedly, I was somewhat wondering the same thing but the text was enough for me to say "OK, its up the GM to decide what these spells reveal." My above comments also help clarify my thoughts as well. Good Luck, Grafton

Offline markc

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 10:06:14 PM »
 I was looking forward to purchasing The Echoes of Heaven Campaign Setting (EoHCS) for Rolemaster (RM) as the author had posted several previews on the official Iron Crown Forums. This approach to writing the product drew me in almost as much as the topic itself. As the author would post topics for discussion, provide sneak peeks, ask for feed back on ideas and provide play by play commentary on some of the good and bad things that happened during the test games. In essence he used the fan base as a member of his staff and it generated lots of posts as well as hype for the product.

 One of the first things you will notice when reading the Echoes of Heaven Campaign setting is the artwork and page layout. Ok you will not notice the page layout but that is what is important. The text is in an easy to read, spacing is great it just makes the product a pleasure to read. The artwork on the other hand does reach out and grab you. All most all of the art work is beautifully drawn with little intricate details that bring the subject to life. In the past some of the best and most memorable artwork I have seen comes from the role playing games Warhammer and Warhammer 40K. Some of the works in Echoes of Heaven Campaign Setting have this depth of design, knowledge of topic ability to catch and hold the eye of the reader.

 The RM version of The Echoes of Heaven Campaign setting includes a 213 page PDF sourcebook and a free 52 page PDF adventure called the Throne of God (ToG). The campaign book covers a lot of ground, from the formation of the mortal realm, heaven and hell to explaining the present day squabbles of countries, nobility and groups.

. If you have not figured it out by the name the product, the setting is very dependant on religion and religious themes. If you do not like playing in a game that heavily focuses on religion you can still use this setting as it has a dearth of wonderful background material for almost any game world. The GM just needs to do some editing of the material to tweak the EoHCS information to his likening and begin playing.

 A general description of the setting chapters are listed below with some comments. For GM?s in the EoHCS various chapters are important game notes for planning an ongoing campaign. The campaign ideas are listed as Adventure Threads and others as World Threads. Adventure Threads are ideas for GMs to explore during their own campaigns. Where as World Thread concepts are going to be revealed in later products and if altered the GM might have to do some fast thinking if running some of the future EoHCS adventures.
 Chapter 1 The Mortal Realm: This section cover some of the major pieces in the EoHCS such as The Sundering of Heaven, Ulcers, the nature of good and evil and the church.
 Chapter 2 Races of the Mortal Realm: Gives descriptions on why and how the standard fantasy races are different in EoHCS from RM?s game system.
 Chapter 3 History of the Mortal Realm: Covers the history of the Sundering of Heaven to the present day. Reading the history brought to my mind many past historical events. I loved how the author rewove many of these events to form the EoHCS mythology. This is a very important chapter for the GM and the players to get the mood and themes of EoHCS. In the future I would like to see a shortened version for players to read so they could get the feel of the setting before the game or campaign begins. Though this is not required if the GM uses the Teaser from ToG
 Chapter 4 Gazetteer of Belkanath: This is the section that GM?s will be using the most as it contains descriptions of countries, their rulers, forms of government, trade items and trade needs, major towns, population, enemies, a country map with major cities located and a section on the history of the country. In this section occasionally the capital of the government is listed as seasonal. I would have liked to see a notation next to the towns they most likely went to during the major months if the year. So for example in the list of major towns it would say Marksville (1,000) [Winter]. This would say to me that during the winter months the government would most likely be in Marksville.
 Chapter 5 Power Groups: The major group forces are listed with their various agendas, spheres of influence, group structure and leadership. The powers group chapter provides many good ideas from long running campaign adversaries to simple one shot adventure ideas.
 Chapter 6 Religion: Religion as I have noted about is a major driving force in the EoHCS setting and this section describes, daily religious life, each races ?Church?, the Atavistic religion and the religions of Daemons and the Great Fiends.
 Chapter 7 Life in Belkanath: Life in Belkanath describes the daily life of people under the Feudal system of government. This is a well written section about feudal life that can add style and flavor to any fantasy RPG game.
 Chapter 8: Miscellaneous: This chapters topics are varied as the author ties up all the lose ends that are generated by the first 7 chapters.
 Appendix 1 Ludremon: Appendix 1 is filled with information for the GM about one of the countries in Belkanath and provides descriptions of towns, rulers, important people, power groups, trade and much more. Where as Chapter 4 the Gazetteer of Belkanath provides an over view of the various countries in Belkanath, Appendix 1 brings the country of Ludremon fully to life. It is a wonderful section to aid a GM in designing his game. One thing I found confusing when reading this section was that groups were listed in this fashion Royal Guard 137(32). After some thinking I figured out that this meant that there are 137 Royal guards and the maximum level is 32nd.
 Appendix 2 Rules and Systems: This appendix talks about how to use EoHCS with Rolemaster Fantasy Role-playing as well as Rolemaster Standard System. It defines which races and professions are appropriate as well as a small section on how magic is different in EoHCS vs. the standard game system.

 The free Throne of God (ToG) adventure might be worth $6-$9 on its own. I know in the past I have paid for many an adventure and later said ?What did I just do? Was I on crack? Boy next time I think about buying an adventure I will just give the money to some homeless guy on the street.? After reading the ToG adventure I said this would be a fun adventure to play in. I could almost picture people at a RPG convention sitting around the table thoroughly engrossed in the adventure. I am not going to say any more about ToG as prospective players as well GM?s might be reading this except sit back and enjoy the ride.

 I spent about 10-15 hours reading this setting cover to cover and I can say Echoes of Heaven and The Throne of God are well worth your time and money. It is well written, has interesting ideas, weaves a believable story line and history, can be used with any game system with very little adaptation. The Echoes of Heaven Campaign book is pure information that can be used by in any campaign, in fact I am thinking of dropping the church information into my spacemaster game. The products major fault comes from its main strength the product can be used with any system. The campaign book is almost all setting information and has very few new Rolemaster rulings or adapted Rolemaster rules. I would have liked to see a new spell list, the Layman profession adapted to the bard instead of the category bonus switch of the swashbuckler profession and more RM specific information on the artifacts listed. I guess you could say just more RM stuff.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline mocking bird

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 08:54:22 AM »
I read the first review and had to chuckle a little bit.

The first on an aside is that Isaiah is referring to the King of Babylon and that 'Lucifer' is Latin but I digress...

The main complaint is that there are no new spells and no new presteige classes.  The majority of complaints on the ICE forums about d20 is the rampant prolifieration of presteige classes.

Alas my reading time was taken up last night by chopping up a significant branch of or walnut tree that fell in our neighbor's yard.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2006, 04:23:52 AM »
Well, in the reviewers defense, I don't think that was his MAIN complaint, just the first.  I don't believe he marked off points for anything other that rule ambiguities, which I think I cleared up in my response.  :)

BTW, from the sales traffic on RPGNow the last two days, I think it's time to post my store again.  www.finalredoubt.com/store  I don't mind you guys buying on RPGNow, but I make more money if you buy on my site and the balls rolling pretty good on RPGNow these days.
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline smug

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2006, 08:00:12 AM »

. If you have not figured it out by the name the product, the setting is very dependant on religion and religious themes. If you do not like playing in a game that heavily focuses on religion you can still use this setting as it has a dearth of wonderful background material for almost any game world. The GM just needs to do some editing of the material to tweak the EoHCS information to his likening and begin playing.


A 'dearth' is a lack of. I don't think that is what you meant to say.

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2006, 09:53:32 AM »
I'm sure.  It's a common mistake.  I hear it all the time.
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2006, 06:10:13 PM »
Okay, as one of the playtesters, I might be a bit biased.  But, I like this setting alot.  I've played White Wolf, AD&D generic, d20 Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, Several Scifi games, Dragonlance and MERP. 

This is why I like Echoes of Heaven (statements have not been approved by Defendi and are complete without compensation.)

1.  I like the familiarity of the religious setting.  Any lay scholar of the Dark Ages will feel the familar pulls of paganism vs the christian churchl.  But, there are enough differences that you're not bogged down with real world doctrines, dogmas and histories to worry about offending a player. 

2.  I like the fact that Races like Elves are rare and that the people are predictably superstitious and distrustful.  I prefer this to the Waterdeep Tavern where you can see a halforc, elf and gnome sharing a drink and no one takes a second glance.

3.  I love the twists.  There are very few purely good and/or evil people you mean around you.  But, yet the demon's and such are nice black and white villians that make for an easy hack and slash if necessary.

4.  I got the "multipack".   I love that I can take my jump drive with me back home (over 2000 miles away) and run this campaign in the setting that is most comfortable for my old gaming groups.  Its nice to have a setting that is not system specific.  So if you don't like prestige classes and prefer RM, you can do that.  Or if you have some "slow" players and need a simplistic system, you can crack the PHB and DMG and voila!  Game time!

Anyway, that's my personal opinion.  And remember boys, I played these modules with a blind tank, voluntarily.   :o 

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2006, 07:00:13 PM »
Thanks.  I will let Tyra out of the Marnench Oubliette after all.

Uh, I mean, yeah.  this was unsolicited.  :)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2006, 06:01:26 PM by Defendi »
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline markc

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2006, 11:56:49 PM »

. If you have not figured it out by the name the product, the setting is very dependant on religion and religious themes. If you do not like playing in a game that heavily focuses on religion you can still use this setting as it has a dearth of wonderful background material for almost any game world. The GM just needs to do some editing of the material to tweak the EoHCS information to his likening and begin playing.


A 'dearth' is a lack of. I don't think that is what you meant to say.

I am sorry for the misuse of the word. What every word you would like to lut int heier that means a " a lot of" be my guest.
I also hope my misuse of the english language did not prevent you from picking it up if you are looking for a roleplaying world as I really liked the info.

I am alos looking forward to the info on how the "progressive" items work. I can not think of the exazt term the author used but it might be bound items.

MDC
Bacon Law: A book so good all PC's need to be recreated.
Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
Role Play not Roll Play.
Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2006, 12:00:11 AM »
Don't worry, dearth is misused ALL THE TIME, I'm sure it didn't turn anyone away.

There are bonded items in the adventures, but not until farther along.
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2006, 01:54:33 AM »
New RPGNow staff review, for those of you still on the fence:

http://edge.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?mid=762&reviews_id=13710&

Store:

www.finalredoubt.com/store
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline GerikGnome

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2006, 11:30:56 AM »
Another good review with the only real minus being a lack of d20 fluff (he calls it the crunch, but come on--Prestige classes, spells, feats, etc--that was crunch years ago.  Now it's pure cotton candy).  And the lack of a print-friendly version is because the version is print-friendly by design.

Offline smug

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2006, 11:57:42 AM »
Don't worry, dearth is misused ALL THE TIME...

I imagine it's because 'there is no dearth...' is such a common construction when saying that there's a lot of something, that the 'no' is sometimes subconciously omitted.

Offline ob1knorrb

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2006, 12:09:34 PM »
Dearth, the opposite of "plethora", which is always a fun word to say, but not as much fun as "vermiculite", which of course has nothing to do with the review. It's just fun to say  ;D
I finally printed off the book last night, haven't had a chance to read it or review it yet.  Went for the Rolemaster version (bought them all) just because I don't think it's been reviewed yet
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Offline mocking bird

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2006, 10:37:02 PM »
Done.  HARP version.

I will at some point have to read the OGL & RM version to see how they compare.  Since there really aren't much in the way of mechanics in the book I don't see how they could be that different.  There are just more comments on RM suppliments - the conflicting cosmology in F&I for example.

http://edge.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=7362&reviews_id=13738&

« Last Edit: August 12, 2006, 10:41:55 PM by mocking bird »
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline Defendi

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Re: Customer Reviews
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2006, 01:34:21 AM »
Thanks man.  Well written review, BTW (not just because it was favorable.)  :)
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com