Author Topic: Pricing  (Read 6766 times)

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Offline Defendi

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Pricing
« on: July 12, 2006, 08:06:08 AM »
All right.  The first product is 210 pages or so for the campaign setting and around 50 for the adventure.  I want your honest opinions.

1)  What are you willing to pay for a pdf of this product?
2)  What price would you be a fool not to purchase it at (what's your dream price?)
3)  What price are you willing to by the full system bundle at (so you have it for all ICE products, for instance)?
4)  Again, what's your dream price?

RPGnow is trying hard to convince me that my pricing philosophy is wrong (not personally, but in all their published guides and standards).  Let me know what you think.

Answer this as promptly as possible.  I think we'll be live this week.
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Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2006, 08:16:22 AM »
For a single 210-page title, I'd personally pay between $12-15 ...

Conversion notes from the one stated Ruleset to others I'd normally say should be very cheap ($2) or free. However, since these will be full titles, not just conversions, I'd say I'd go as high as $5-7 per extra rulesystem.

(sorry about below - can't remember exactly how many rulesets you are supporting - 4? 5? 6?)
So if you were to say ... any one ruleset = $12; select two rulesets ... $17; any four rulesets ... $22


Offline kasalin

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2006, 08:21:41 AM »
1)  What are you willing to pay for a pdf of this product?

If it where a physical book, I would expect to pay $30-40 for the system book and $15 or so for an adventure book, so for a PDF, I would expect to pay about half the book value.

2)  What price would you be a fool not to purchase it at (what's your dream price?)

Probably anything less than $20

3)  What price are you willing to by the full system bundle at (so you have it for all ICE products, for instance)?

Unless there was some significant content difference (other than stats to accommodate the system change) maybe a couple dollars over the base PDF price.

4)  Again, what's your dream price?

See #2

As a side, I have not had any problems with the pricing levels of the ICE HARP products I've bought, which is pretty much all of them.  I have balked at paying the WotC PDF prices as they are essentially the same as the hardcopy price.

Hope that helps.
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Offline mocking bird

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2006, 10:35:30 AM »
1)  What are you willing to pay for a pdf of this product?
$10-$15
2)  What price would you be a fool not to purchase it at (what's your dream price?)
Foolish price to buy is $5, which imo is probably a close to a foolish price to sell it at too. ;)  So a more serious note would be $10.
3)  What price are you willing to by the full system bundle at (so you have it for all ICE products, for instance)?
Full bundle - $2-$5 which is comparable to other ICE pdf's out there.
4)  Again, what's your dream price?
My dream price would be inversely related to post count....
But again it would be $10 but $12 would be a waking dream price.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline Mungo

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2006, 03:21:59 PM »
1: 15$ (Setting) + 5$ (Adventure)
2: 10$
3: Just a few dollars more
4: 12$

Offline Turambar

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2006, 11:52:17 PM »
1)  What are you willing to pay for a pdf of this product?
$15
Quote
2)  What price would you be a fool not to purchase it at (what's your dream price?)
$10
Quote
3)  What price are you willing to by the full system bundle at (so you have it for all ICE products, for instance)?
$20
Quote
4)  Again, what's your dream price?
$13.37...I have very detailed dreams ;)

Jason
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Offline kedrake

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2006, 08:03:31 AM »
I think the $15.00 PDF mark is a good one for the setting.  I would call it $7.50 for the adventure unless you buy the setting and adventure as a bundle.  Bundle to two together for $20.00.

I would be a fool to not purchase it @ $9.95 ($2.50 for the adventure).

Budled with all systems...Say $20.00.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2006, 12:35:07 AM »
A good fairly complete setting I probably would not pay more then $15 for as a PDF.

Sourcebooks like the various RM "Companions" I wouldn't pay more then $6-$8

Adventures I think should be around $5

An example of these bundled? I'd say 85% of the combined cost. Roughly $22 of the above three averaged. Basically the tought process is you buy the setting and one source book, get an adventure free.

My point of view as a consumer (not someone interested in the industry or author side of it) is that the PDF needs to be less then half the cost of the printed book. 40% is what I want to pay (or less). As a buyer I think more then that is unfair to me as an individual - all it's costing the originator is the author fee, a little web dev time and some bandwidth. I'm providing the ink, the paper, the binding, etc... if I want to have it in hard format.

However, coming from the author and/or company side of it I can see wanting to get a little more... along the 60% side (due to illegal distribution that you pretty much know is going to go on within a gaming group).

So my end conclusion is I can live with 50% essentially.
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Offline Dr. Joe

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2006, 06:14:15 AM »
A good fairly complete setting I probably would not pay more then $15 for as a PDF.

Sourcebooks like the various RM "Companions" I wouldn't pay more then $6-$8

Adventures I think should be around $5

An example of these bundled? I'd say 85% of the combined cost. Roughly $22 of the above three averaged. Basically the tought process is you buy the setting and one source book, get an adventure free.

My point of view as a consumer (not someone interested in the industry or author side of it) is that the PDF needs to be less then half the cost of the printed book. 40% is what I want to pay (or less). As a buyer I think more then that is unfair to me as an individual - all it's costing the originator is the author fee, a little web dev time and some bandwidth. I'm providing the ink, the paper, the binding, etc... if I want to have it in hard format.

However, coming from the author and/or company side of it I can see wanting to get a little more... along the 60% side (due to illegal distribution that you pretty much know is going to go on within a gaming group).

So my end conclusion is I can live with 50% essentially.

I don't agree with the arguments here - although my point of view may not be very representative.

Yes, a PDF product ought to be a bit cheaper than a softback (which in turn is usually a bit cheaper than a hardback). But 75% is good enough as the advantages of a PDF are valuable, too. For example, my RMSS softback is falling apart, pages are bent, smeared, and generally used. If I have a PDF, I can simply print out the pages I want new and shiny. I also have the choice of what to do with it: Go to a copy shop and get it as a hardbound. Print out in black and white and put in a ring binder. The same goes for a color printout. Repeat as required. Also, consider the simplicity of printing out pages for the players pertaining to their characters (okay, this could be done via photocopying, but personally, I prefer my printer at home, which is always accessible...).

From a different perspective, how much time does an elaborate setting along with adventures in that setting save me as a GM, respectively, how many hours of game play does a group of players get? Compare this to, say, seeing a movie at a cinema - or buying a computer RPG, for that matter? I think that especially the combination of setting and adventure, plus the explicit mention of adventure seeds vs. world seeds as in EoH makes GM work more efficient/effective.

So. Less than $10 for Product 2 as a multi-bundle certainly seems a bit on the low side for me. I would have paid that for the RM-only variant without thinking twice. The same goes for the $15 for Product 1 multi. For me, current pricing is in the foolish category both for the 2) single- and 3) multi-system versions.

1) I'd be willing to pay 1.5 to 2 times the foolish price ;)
4) I try not to dream of prices  ;D

Ah, not to forget: The Products come with maps for CC2/CC3, including additional symbols, so you can print out sections at pretty much any resolution you like. You could even mess around in them if you have the software... ;)

Offline Michael Petrea

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2006, 08:18:41 AM »
I agree with Joe about PDFs having benefits that hardcopies do not.  I am a big fan of the PDF revolution in gaming.  You can search them and print the parts you need and even re-arrange them to some extent so that they are formatted the way that you prefer.  And, you can keep you gaming table clean by just having a laptop with the information on it.  However, I am usually willing to pay 60% of the book cost for a PDF because I still have to print it and bind it (ok, I don't HAVE to but I like books).

As for the original questions in this thread, I bought the first product as a bundle for $15.  I thought it was a good buy for something I wasn't sure about and didn't know if I would even use.  After reading it, I realized that it was worth well more than that. 

Anyway:

1) $5-6 for an adventure. $15-20 for a campaign setting/sourcebook.
2) $10-$15 for both.
3) Only 2 of the 4 versions are of interest to me (guess which 2) so I might pay a small ($2-$4; 10% to 20%) premium to not have to decide which version I want to actually run/play.
4)  I stick with my previous answer.  I am shocked this morning because I saw that the bundle for product 2 is going for $10. I would have paid twice that. 

Offline Higlak

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2006, 03:25:48 PM »
I agree that if you keep the pdf on your computer, the price is low but when you buy a softcover or hardcover book you pay for the printing and expedition.  Two things you don't have to pay with pdf. 

Offline mocking bird

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2006, 03:36:17 PM »
4)  I stick with my previous answer.  I am shocked this morning because I saw that the bundle for product 2 is going for $10. I would have paid twice that. 

Shhhhhhhhhh..... ;)
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline Defendi

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 07:50:56 PM »
No worries for either camp.  I want to start by telling you what a wonderful feeling this thread is giving me.  It's great having people telling you that your stuff is worth more than your selling if for.  Here is some comments to make you not worry about the implications of this thread:

1) I'm not going to raise the price on those who think PDFs should be cheep.
2) I'm not purposely selling my products short.  

Pricing theory:

Billy Joe Jive hit on exactly the issue here.  I'm not trying to sell products to people who KNOW they're good.  If you like it, you'll buy it.  I try to WRITE for you, so you don't stop buying, but I'm not selling at you, because that's usually just annoying.  Who I am selling at are people who will think "it's a good buy for something I wasn't sure about and didn't know if I would even use."  My goal is to pick up a slew of new customer's with every product and if you know who I am, you're probably buying anyway, so the new customera are likely people who don't know me from Adam.

I dream of a day when I can charge for products based on what they're actually worth.  <Sigh>  Right now, I'm building the business and the first product did VERY well, so I THINK it's working.  We'll see.  The price implications of the second product worry me some.  I'd like to price it below the minimum buy on RPGnow, but I think that would actually hurt sales.

This all stemmed from a conversation with my expartner (we didn't part on bad terms, he just couldn't contribute to the company like he wanted) where he was remarking on the fact that he can get PDFs of all the books he uses in his business for free, and he thinks that game PDFs are vastly overpriced considering how little overhead an e-publishing firm has (it's actually a lot more than he thought, but I managed to do everything for as little as he thought I would because people have donated a lot of time and services to the cause.)  He remarked that if he saw a product for 2.99, he'd buy it regardless of whether or not he thought he'd use it, that 2.99 was worth satisfying his curiosity alone.

Anyway, that pricepoint didn't work out because of the mimum checkout price, and RPGNow is where I'm getting ALL my new customers,  but we're still experimenting with pricing.  If you look at the full price of any of my products, that's how much I think the PDF is worth (Usually about half of the real book fee with some bonus pages thrown in).  I charge half that betting that I will make twice the sales at half the price.  I'm relatively certain the first product proved that out at 9.99.  I earned promotion off the small press site in the first week (which I think is unheard of) and while a lot of marketing hoo ha went into that, when it was done, people who didn't play RM and so likely didn't know my name were buying my books.  The question is will that hold true for product 2?  The price seems . . . awkward to me, but if I didn't stick to my guns for at least one product, I'd always wonder if I made a mistake.

Anyway, that's behind the curtain on pricing.  Basically, I write to take care of existing customers and price to compete for new customers.  Feel free to post many review on RPGNow where you call me all sorts of variation of "imbecile" for how low the price is.  That would almost certainly help sales.  :)
The Echoes of Heaven:  Available for HARP and Rolemaster.  www.FinalRedoubt.com

Offline Michael Petrea

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2006, 08:39:40 PM »
I planned to write a review on RPG while at work today that stated that it was a very good deal but work must have gotten in the way.  I will have to work less tomorrow.  ;D

Actually, I haven't had a chance to read product 2 yet and I don't want to write a review without actually reading the product.

As for value, there is alot of crap out there in the PDF world (on RPGNow) so I guess it is just refreshing when you find a product that doesn't suck.

Offline Defendi

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2006, 09:02:15 PM »
Yeah, feel free to read the product before you review it.  :)
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Offline mocking bird

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2006, 02:05:09 PM »
In case anyone is interested for possible additional costs of pdf's -

Printing and 3-hole punching both books at Office Max - $9.52
3 ring binder - 1 1/2", 475 page - $9.59
    There are cheaper binders but I like the ones that the posts are flat on one side rather than the rings.  Pages are easier to get in & out with them I fee.

Don't go to Kinko's - Last time the person wouldn't print it out as the material was copyrighted.  Probably just an overzealous assistant manager who hates his job but it irritated me enough I won't be going there again.
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.    Buddha

Offline Michael Petrea

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Re: Pricing
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 02:33:04 PM »
I put mine in sheet protectors and then in a D-ring binder (about $3).

So, heavy weight, clear, sheet protectors, 200 ct at Costco - $10
They are about 80% more at Office Depot or Max.