Topic: Sawed-Off vs. Normal Shotgun

[Hurin]

In my SM2 game last night, a character had the shotgun skill and wanted to use the sawed-off version rather than the normal version. The only difference I could see between the two was that the sawed-off version had inferior range. Why would anyone choose to use a sawed-off version? Is there some advantage the sawed-off version has that I am missing?

[Ynglaur]

In my SM2 game last night, a character had the shotgun skill and wanted to use the sawed-off version rather than the normal version. The only difference I could see between the two was that the sawed-off version had inferior range. Why would anyone choose to use a sawed-off version? Is there some advantage the sawed-off version has that I am missing?

Under SM2 rules, it also had a larger cone of fire.  Shotguns get an attack at full OB against the primary target, and at +0 OB (before range, ammo type, etc.) against all targets within the cone of fire.  I can't remember the exact spreads...i seem to recall a normal shotgun was 10 degrees, and a sawed-off shotgun was 20 degrees.

I would also make it slightly easier to conceal a sawed-off shotgun, and probably apply a lower (or no) penalty for confined spaces (e.g. shooting while crawling through ductworks).

[Hurin]

I looked, and on Player Book, p. 56, it says that normal shotguns can attack secondary targets within 5% of the range. So for example, when firing at a target 20m away, the attacker would get secondary attacks on targets within 1m (5% of 20) from the primary target.

Sawed-off Shotguns get secondary attacks on targets 10% of the distance away. So when firing at a target 20m away, the attacker would get secondary attacks on targets wihin 2m (10% of 20m) away.

So far, so good. The only problem is that the ranges for a normal shotgun are precisely twice that of a sawed-off shotgun. So in the end, they seem to come out exactly the same?

[VladD]

But it is a slight advantage to get secondary targets at half normal range. I find 5% as a radius from the original range to be fairly wide. This is 10% diameter. Normally you'd get 1-2' spreads at 75', which translates to 1.3 - 2.6%. So I guess getting secondary targets with a real world shotgun is not viable.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/20447/buckshot-basics/ scroll down for a table on that.

There is a lot of variance in shotguns, with varying shells, loadings, barrel length and chokes.

[markc]

 Yes, look at some of the shotguns on the internet and see how long they are. In general they have fairly long barrales for good range for their ammo loadout.
 I do not remember where I saw it or heard about it but sawing off the barrel does dramatically affect the weapon. I think it gives it a wider range to engage but limits the damage to the first range bracket, as after that bracket the ammo does not have the ability to damage targets. ie the barrel also focuses the gas of the gun powder down its length and gives the shells more momentum and kinetic energy. Less barrel so less focus of force or you could say the short barrel wastes a lot of energy.


MDC


BTW, You may want to try and do a search on sawed off shotguns and effective range. Or how does reducing the barrel of a shot gun affect its range and accuracy.   

[intothatdarkness]

Sawed-off shotguns are intended for use at close range. Cutting down the barrel(s) removes the choke, which is intended to control and limit shot spread at close ranges. The increased shot spread makes a sawed-off something close to an area weapon, meaning that its accuracy goes up in a sense at close ranges, but drops off rapidly at anything beyond that. It also makes the weapon quite concealable (not just slightly). A cut-down pistol grip pump could have an eight or ten inch barrel (or shorter, limiting the tube magazine capacity to 3 rounds...box magazines are not impacted by that), which a cut-down single or double barrel is shorter than that. You can also put "spreaders" on sawed-off shotguns, increasing the shot spread even more.

Incidentally, the spread of a sawed-off would allow a shooter to engage two targets at close range (inside about 20 feet).

[Hurin]

Ah, ok, I think I see the difference now.

Let's comepare a normal and sawed-off shotgun at 10m. This is short range for both. At 10m, the normal shotgun hits secondary targets at 5% of range, so it would get attacks on targets within 0.5m of the primary, whereas the sawed-off version would get attacks on secondary targets at 10% of range, or 1m of the primary. So the sawed-off shotgun has less range but a wider angle of fire.

Question though: do you round up, down, or off when trying to figure out whether the normal shotgun gets an attack against secondary targets at 10m? The rules say you get an attack against targets within 0.5m of the primary, but each hex is 1m... so do you get an attack or not? Do you round up the 0.5m to 1m?

[intothatdarkness]

You could go either way, really. Spread on a shotgun depends on the choke, and a different choke will give it more or less spread at various ranges. I think for game purposes I'd likely round up (unless your shotguns are more commonly used as hunting weapons).