Topic: SM 2E questions. Hope someone can help.

[licoricemetal]

[Ok, so now two people are saying this, so I'm curious as to where this is stated in the rules (or a setting?). As far as I can see there is no difference between ATs 9-10 and ATs 11-12.

• All four of them have descriptions on page 22 in TechBook and on page 60-61 in Players Book.
  
• All of them have maneuver penalties on page 62 in PlayersBook.
• All of them have weights and prices on page 27 in TechBook.
• All of them are listed in the Armor Accessory Availability Chart in Companion 1.
• (I can’t think of more places to look )

Granted, the description of ATs 11-12 says they are ALSO used for some animals, but that is just added in brackets.

-Terry

Yes Terry, this is exactly what I have been trying to say from the start. Both AT9-12 and AT13-16 are described as primarely armored bodysuits for humanoids. AT13-16 cost more monits and cost more skill points to minimize penalties. AND AT9-12 offer better protection then AT13-16 all over the place according to damage charts! This is nonsense. I am surprised no one else has mentioned this bug before.

N

[markc]

  The info I remember is from RM2 which was the basis for SM2. The animal AT's were also carried over to RMSS, RMFRP ans SM:P with notes that some armors may be those At's but most of the AT's in that range are animal AT's.


  If I were to guess and it would be a guess I would say it was a type-o that did not get noticed.
MDC

[JimiSue]

Hi - sorry for coming to this discussion late - I've not been on the forums for several months due to other things getting in the way but... I am a SM2 GM, exclusively using the 2nd ed rules although I've picked up a few Privateers books (not the core one yet though) so a shift may come eventually.

My take on the AT situation is simple - AT9-12 is better against high tech weapons than 13-16. Just because it has a higher AT doesn't mean it's better! 13-16 are mesh armours, which originated from the old RM chain mail armour types, while 9-12 have their roots in rigid leathers - i.e. a tough-to-penetrate material which has a bit of give to it. You will note that these days protective body armour is not made from mesh... it's made from rigid plates - against a high speed bullet, meshes would perform no better than chain mail does against crossbow bolts. So yes, it's an anomaly, but having the AT progression from 12, 19, 20 doesn't inherently break the system - it's not like there aren't a lot of armour types out there.

There's not much around for additional material these days since SM2 came and went before the internet really took off. I can of course recommend the adventure series I uploaded to the download section of this site, which was written for use in SM2. I have another adventure I need to upload there at some point in the future - scenarios 1-8 took about 20 weeks of play, but scenario 9 took 6 weeks all on its own (I was expecting 2, maybe 3) and the group has not yet finished scenario 10, and I was wanting to post them up faster than one at a time.

There are some robotics rules in the core books, and you can also find some humanoid body rules using the cybernetics rules on SpaMCo2 (although they have some discrepancies - I've also done a stream-of-consciousness thoughts on that, also in the download section).

I do love the rules and setting even though there are gaps in it large enough to drive a truck though - I hope you continue to play and enjoy, and as fellow SM2 GMs, maybe we can compare notes from time to time!

[Hurin]

Wow, I really did not notice this before... I am seriously considering doing what one poster said, and reversing the tables for ATs 9-12 and 13-16. It's either that, I think, or just saying that ATs 11 and 12 are only natural ATs. This is kind of a game breaker for me.

[Ynglaur]

Iirc, AT13-16 are better against Small Projectiles (at least Mk 1-3) and the generic Melee Weapon table; I think the lower-Mk Disruptor/Stunners do worse as well.  As a GM, I also ruled they could be more easily concealed underneath clothing (or made as part of clothing).  Just don't go up against someone wielding a PRR or anything.

[yammahoper]

Thanks guys for fast reply...

1. Is it normal that on most damage charts, AT9-12 armors are better than AT13-16? Shoul'nt it be the opposite? Considering the extra weight and cost on the 13-16? Is there an official fix? We decided to swap the columns for the two categories as a temporary solution

The major difference of those AT are the crits you get lower crit on higher AT

I thought as much at first, but no. Here are some samples:
Laser: Max for mk2: AT12=4A, AT16=5B; Max for mk5: AT12=15F, AT16=17H
Blaster: Max for mk2: AT12=10A, AT16=13D; Max for mk5: AT12=35F, AT16=43H (see how the discrepancy is huge here!)
Stunner: skipping straight to max damage for mk5: AT12=18C, AT16=20D
Shotgun? 20B vs. 25C
For small projectiles, explosives and martial arts, AT 13-16 are marginally (as in 1 crit level better is the best case, even otherwise) better.
Both AT9-12 and AT13-16 are described as armored bodysuits, with very similar physical description. The only difference is higher maneuver penalties for the 13-16, and higher cost. In almost every aspect, AT13-16 are just worse. Does not make sense to me. Why would anyone with a shred of sense invest on them? unless these are errata?

For more on that you would need Star Strike and/or Armored Assault they a complete set of rule on how to at higher AT with small arms and the opposite too.

OK I'll check on Armored Assatlt (though it seems to address vehicles, not robots, or am I wrong?)

Try TMWTD (Ten Million Ways to Die), an optional arms law that incorporates RM and SM armor types for ALL weapons, melee to musket to energy weapons.

SM:P is easily used in SM2, so picking up Vehicle Law will help with handling vehicle combat.  ALL SM:P attack tables are compatible with SM2 and superior in general design to SM2.

[Hurin]

SM:P is easily used in SM2, so picking up Vehicle Law will help with handling vehicle combat.  ALL SM:P attack tables are compatible with SM2 and superior in general design to SM2.

Just wondering: how do you make SM:P armors compatible with SM2? SM2 has four armor categories that you can train in, whereas SM:P has only 3 (AFAIK-- I've played only SM2). The three most protective of SM2 armors seem to match up with the three types from SM:P, but that leaves out SM2's category of 'Light Body Armor'. Any tips on how I can negotiate that? I guess I could just use the old RM AT 4-8 column...

[yammahoper]

There are ten armor types in SM:P, expressed as Roman Numerals (I, II, III, IV, V, etc).   Light body armor should be covered by AT I, II, III, and IV (equal to modern day body armors). 

Anyway, armors are cloth, kinetic or combat in SM:P.  Light body armor is probably cloth (kelvar, advanced synthetics, inserted plates, etc). 

In game I track every 8 hours armor is worn and give 3dp to be applied to the appropriate armor skill. 

Anyway, you would need three skills instead of four.  Just rename the skills.  Easily done with no catagory syetem to act as a wrench in the works.  For older PC's with the extra skill, transfer the dp to an appropriate athletic ability.