Topic: Psionics - Feedback

[Mungo]

Hi,

Here my comments regarding Psionics:

- I was positively impressed by both the simplicity of the system and its close relationship to the Magic rules of HARP.
- The explanation of PSI in the Tintamar universe is in my opinion much too scientific. I try to imagine the scene when I explain my players the collapse of their wave functions based on outside input.... I suggest to come up with something simpler and less scientific, e.g. that a mind has energy, which - provided the right neural paths - can influence the outside world incl. the energy flows of other minds?
- Again I like the seperation between general rules and Tintamar.
- p214: The example on the right hand side does not fit with the table below.
- The table on p214 is nowhere explained (its use is kind of obvious, but still).
- I suggest to add to this table also all relevant modifiers, so that a GM needs only this table to have all PSI relevant rulings (i.e. like the maneuver table with the difficulty modifiers at the bottom).
- It is difficult to comment on specific rules without having playtested. Nevertheless:
    - Skill ranks have no impact on the numbers of PEP spent or the number of Tiers used -> is this good? I understand the Tiers, because they depend on a talent, but max. spent PEP I would restrict to number of skill ranks.
    - All psionic effects take 1 round to activate, i.e. the effect is in the same round as the maneuver. This is very powerful compared to Magic, where the duration for activation is 1 round for every 5PPs or fraction thereof -> from a logic and alignment point of view it would make sense for me to align this with magic.
- I am not sure 1 Psi profession is enough. Of course you can always combine it with a second profession, but a) this is cumbersome and b) I guess there are PSI schools that focus on specific mundane skills as well. I would suggest, in addition to the Adept, 3 other PSI professions with focus on fighting, spying and tech (i.e. who are also "hands-on")
- Electrical Control: there are 3 options how to use it, but only for one there are rules given -> I suggest to include rulings also for the other 2 options.
- Energy Dispersal: does "energy bolt" mean also Lasers and Blasters or only Electricity/Neuro based attacks?
- Kinetic Field: it works against sonic weapons. I understand the reasoning as sound is energy transfer through swinging molecules, which have a kinetic energy. But consequently this would mean that no sound can come through the kinetic field -> I would suggest to exclude sonic weapons, as they are a grey area here and I would not like to have the Kinetic Field as a sound barrier.
- Telekinesis: this sounds like the ultimate attack skill. With tier 5 and 10 ranks I can hurl a car at my enemies! I suggest a) to restrict the weight for hurled objects (in 5 steps corresponding to tiers and attack size) and b) to give more rules on the range of hurled attacks, as it will be greater than the range for the PSI ability.
- Clouding: the step from Tier 3 to Tier 4 is quite big. I suggest to have Tier 4 "selectively remove elements from any or all senses and selectively create elements or complete hallucinations for one sense".
- Wipe: Tier 3 is much more powerful than Tier 2. Does it make sense to increase power of ability and number of affected scenes in one go?
- I am missing the skill that enables a character to become a combat machine (at least in melee). I.e. the one I need for creating a River Tam (Serenity) or a Jedi Knight. You can use a mixture of stat boosts and extrasensory perception, but this is cumbersome and does not quite give the desired outcome.

BR
Juergen

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Just a note on your last point, about the combat machine.

In Serenity, that had nothing to do with her psi powers, but was training she received in addition the neural pattycake they played. With the Jedi, there may be some psi abilities that aid in combat (energy dispersal), but for the most part, they are trained warriors as well.

[Mungo]

Hi,

I got the impression from the one Firefly episode where they storm this crime lord's den that River is so deadly because she can foresee her enemy's actions (she shot 3 guys without looking at them, knowing in advance where they would be). And I think this is in principle the same thing that enables Jedi's to block blaster attacks with their lightsaber.

I am not sure how to manage this in rule terms, therefore my comment was unspecific. This ability is a mixture of Extrasensory perception (looking into the future), coupled with an OB and DB bonus.

BR
Juergen

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

River is a genius. So intelligent that that she puts her genius brother to shame. In the episode where they talk about her shooting the three guys (she shot the guys in the episode where Mal got captured, they discussed in the episode where Jubal Early invades the ship), Kaylee specifically says that River did the math -- cause River DID look at them before she shot them, and once she did, she figured out where to aim her shots. River is a PSI, of that there is no doubt, but her fighting prowess is specifically from conditioning and training - they were turning her into a weapon after all...

The jedi blocking laser blast could simply be a talent that allows them to parry energy bolt with their light sabers. It need not be a specific power, or it could be a talent that works in conjunction with the energy dispersal.

In Star Wars, Obi Wan tells Luke to use the force, to let it guide him. This is for a specific strike and it does require concentration to handle, so something along those lines might be possible, but I would be very leery of putting any sort of "combat machine" power into the rules....

[Mungo]

Hi,

You are right. I also looked her up in the Serenity RPG and there she only has the "Reader" trait for PSI, which is basically a combination of Clairsentience, Clairvoyance and Scan. Nothing else.

BR
Juergen

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

- p214: The example on the right hand side does not fit with the table below.

Good catch.

- The table on p214 is nowhere explained (its use is kind of obvious, but still).

Actually it is in my midnight-black hardbound copy. The table moved position during Tim's layout pass breaking the implicit visual cue. Once it is given a number and the text a reference to that number all will be well again.

- It is difficult to comment on specific rules without having playtested. Nevertheless:
    - Skill ranks have no impact on the numbers of PEP spent or the number of Tiers used -> is this good? I understand the Tiers, because they depend on a talent, but max. spent PEP I would restrict to number of skill ranks.

That's what we have playtesters for. Go playtest.

    - All psionic effects take 1 round to activate, i.e. the effect is in the same round as the maneuver. This is very powerful compared to Magic, where the duration for activation is 1 round for every 5PPs or fraction thereof -> from a logic and alignment point of view it would make sense for me to align this with magic.

Psionics are different from Magic. Demonstrably different. Deliberately different. I've had to put with too much Mentalism is just Psionics in drag. And vice versa.

Psionics has no concept of the instantaneous discipline. Psi users have to keep buying Talents, psi disciplines have shorter durations, good ranges require quite high Tiers, etc.

- I am not sure 1 Psi profession is enough. Of course you can always combine it with a second profession, but a) this is cumbersome and b) I guess there are PSI schools that focus on specific mundane skills as well. I would suggest, in addition to the Adept, 3 other PSI professions with focus on fighting, spying and tech (i.e. who are also "hands-on")

One of my design goals in terms of professions in HARP SF was to achieve the purity of archetypes from the The Philosophy of Professions/Irregular Realms, and utilise the fact that HARP can do multiple professions to avoid professions that are purely hybrid (a la Explorer and Recon in Privateers). Multiple professions and using training packages can achieve these sorts of hybrids. I can see that Psi could be deemed a special case, particularly to provide built-in support  for certain "psi"-rich settings.

I may produce some Semi-Adepts for the next TGC (as we're short of articles) and see how they work out.

- Electrical Control: there are 3 options how to use it, but only for one there are rules given -> I suggest to include rulings also for the other 2 options.

I'll look at that more closely.

- Energy Dispersal: does "energy bolt" mean also Lasers and Blasters or only Electricity/Neuro based attacks?

Lasers harm by heating, so are covered by Pryokinetic Field. Only Electricity/Neuro.

- Telekinesis: this sounds like the ultimate attack skill. With tier 5 and 10 ranks I can hurl a car at my enemies! I suggest a) to restrict the weight for hurled objects (in 5 steps corresponding to tiers and attack size) and b) to give more rules on the range of hurled attacks, as it will be greater than the range for the PSI ability.

Except we do need to be able to simulate the Emperor chucking stuff at his foes. The specific numbers may change through playtesting, and some more rules on hurling would not go amiss.

- Clouding: the step from Tier 3 to Tier 4 is quite big. I suggest to have Tier 4 "selectively remove elements from any or all senses and selectively create elements or complete hallucinations for one sense".

Do you mean Tier 3 and Tier 4?

- Wipe: Tier 3 is much more powerful than Tier 2. Does it make sense to increase power of ability and number of affected scenes in one go?

I shall look more closely at that one.

- I am missing the skill that enables a character to become a combat machine (at least in melee). I.e. the one I need for creating a River Tam (Serenity) or a Jedi Knight. You can use a mixture of stat boosts and extrasensory perception, but this is cumbersome and does not quite give the desired outcome.

What you need and what Tim is talking about later on are a set of Disciplines in the ESP Field, say:
Precognitive Strike: gives a bonus to character's OB due to character's subconscious perceiving a little bit into the future and the character being able to use these insights.
Precognitive Defense: bonus to DB, same explanation
Precognitive Maneuver: bonus to specific skills, same explanation

Deliberately split into at least 3 disciplines for game balance reasons.

A good potential addition.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Mungo]

That's what we have playtesters for. Go playtest.

- Clouding: the step from Tier 3 to Tier 4 is quite big. I suggest to have Tier 4 "selectively remove elements from any or all senses and selectively create elements or complete hallucinations for one sense".

Do you mean Tier 3 and Tier 4?

Hi,

I already agreed with my group to start my HARP SF campaign in May. Faster is not possible, sorry.

I meant to change the description of Tier 4 only. In Tier 1 you can discrupt 1 sense, in Tier 2 all senses. In Tier 3 you can currently remove from one sense, in Tier 4 you can add to one sense. In Tier 5 you can do whatever you want.

So I proposed to add to Tier 4 that you can remove from all senses.

BR
Juergen

[ob1knorrb]

- I am missing the skill that enables a character to become a combat machine (at least in melee). I.e. the one I need for creating a River Tam (Serenity) or a Jedi Knight. You can use a mixture of stat boosts and extrasensory perception, but this is cumbersome and does not quite give the desired outcome.

What you need and what Tim is talking about later on are a set of Disciplines in the ESP Field, say:
Precognitive Strike: gives a bonus to character's OB due to character's subconscious perceiving a little bit into the future and the character being able to use these insights.
Precognitive Defense: bonus to DB, same explanation
Precognitive Maneuver: bonus to specific skills, same explanation

Deliberately split into at least 3 disciplines for game balance reasons.

A good potential addition.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

I think there is a thread from awhile ago where we started discussing some of these.  Might be interesting to revisit now that HARP Sci Fi is available to more people

http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=2301.0

[Juicinator]

What you need and what Tim is talking about later on are a set of Disciplines in the ESP Field, say:
Precognitive Strike: gives a bonus to character's OB due to character's subconscious perceiving a little bit into the future and the character being able to use these insights.
Precognitive Defense: bonus to DB, same explanation
Precognitive Maneuver: bonus to specific skills, same explanation

Deliberately split into at least 3 disciplines for game balance reasons.

A good potential addition.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

After a perusal of the psionics system, I have to agree with just about everything said here ... I am very glad to see that any sort of additional melee-enhancing powers will be toned down for game balance.

Do you foresee these powers also being effective in vehicle combat?