Topic: Faster character generation

[Arioch]

Hi all! It's been a while since I've posted here for the last time. RL kept me away from the boards (but not from the gaming table! eheh) for some time, but now I'm back with vengeance! And questions! 

The first one is about a topic often discussed when people start talking about RM: the lenght of character generation.
Now, I'd like to introduce some new people to the game so what I'd want to do is to streamline the process and make it as quick as possible.
So, what tips, tricks and HRs do you have to speed up character creation?*
I'm thinking of using RMFRP, but I'd like to hear suggestions for any edition as I'm still not sure about it.
Thanks!

*beside using a program/automatized sheet! 

[markc]

1) Give them some basic info before game that will make choices easier.
2) Meet them one on one it makes PC gen easier and faster
3) Have some pre gen blocks of skills done. By that I mean if playing a fighter have a list of skills with their costs already done. So the player can just say OK I want to play a fighter that wields a 2H weapon in med armor and they can pick a package or series of packages that relate to that.
4) Have a page or two with all the info; races, professions (with brief description), with book and pages #'s, ect to allow for making choices easy and allow for fast look-up.


MDC

[JimiSue]

1) Give them some basic info before game that will make choices easier.
2) Meet them one on one it makes PC gen easier and faster
3) Have some pre gen blocks of skills done. By that I mean if playing a fighter have a list of skills with their costs already done. So the player can just say OK I want to play a fighter that wields a 2H weapon in med armor and they can pick a package or series of packages that relate to that.
4) Have a page or two with all the info; races, professions (with brief description), with book and pages #'s, ect to allow for making choices easy and allow for fast look-up.

I recently had a brand new player do a character for Space Master (2nd ed) and did all of the above, and even so, it still took two and a half hours until the character was complete (although because the other players were bored, the last hour of that we did start a little light play so that could have gone faster otherwise). It goes much faster when you have people who have played before because explaining basic concepts can take a while, but character gen is still a bit of a headache.

[DangerMan]

If we are talking about people who have never played RM I would not have them go through the entire process. I would rather have a good talk with him / her and find out what sort of character concept the player wanted - e.g. "fighter with outdoors skills and a wolf companion" - and then to do work by myself. There's no way someone new to RMFRP can make informed choices, unless hours and hours are spent, at the end of which both you and the player will be on the verge of total break down.

Depending on starting level I think it would take me 1 - 2 hours doing the job alone. Explaining every singel step to a newbie and you could multiply by ten, Im sure. The last time I made a character I was to play myself the process took three weeks 

[RandalThor]

Other than those options that you don't want to hear about, really, the only way to make it fast is to do it yourself after hearing what type of character the player would like to play. Even then, the explaining of skills and abilities can take a while.

But, mainly, you really just need to make sure that the player has enough patience to go through it, because it isn't until you are are an RM veteran that you can comfortably sit down and make a character from scratch quickly. (I can do a 1st level character in about 1-hour, sometimes a little less. But that is only when I have decided what I want for them.)

And, for me, I think the feeling of having a 3D character (as opposed to 2D ones form other systems) is worth the wait/work.

[markc]

Also;
1) try and find a time outside of game time to create the PC. I know this is hard but maybe have a general game day where others play other games and you can do PC gen with those who need it. It may not be fun for the GM but it is well worth it IMHO.
MDC

[yammahoper]

Make the PC for them before the game.

Then let them play the PC until level 3-5, at which point you allow them to do a redesign if they wish.  Having played and trained for several level advancements, they will know the system well enough.

[ReaperWolf]

Make the PC for them before the game.

Agree 100%, pregens are the only way to introduce new players to ICE games. There's no way for players to make informed decisions with SO many options available to them especially if you bust out Talent Law/School of Hard Knocks and incorporate all the various sourcebooks.

Make iconic PCs like dwarf fighter, elf ranger, etc. this way the players show up and after only a few minutes of instruction you're playing instead of watching the players scratching their heads in confusion.

>>ReaperWolf

[GrumpyOldFart]

I only agree about 50-75%. Off game time, get an idea what they want and get at least halfway through chargen. Then get with them, explain to them what choices you've made and why. Ask them if there's anything about the idea that really just doesn't satisfy, something they think they should have or be able to do that's not there. If there is, ask them what parts of the current character they're willing to give up to get it.

This introduces them to the idea of chargen as a series of choices, trying to model the character concept you want. If you don't do something along those lines and just hand them a pre-gen, the next level of development is going to be nearly as chaotic as chargen would have been. In addition, it gives them at least a bit of introduction into where to look for _____ on the character sheet before game time.

For something as granular as RM, someone coming from a much simpler system (or worse, no RPG experience at all) has to be fed all this in small bits over a period of time, like sneaking the vegetables into a kid's dinner.

 

[bpowell]

AS someone who just introduced a group to RMC from the System That Shall Not Be Named (Actually Pathfinder), for a series of play tests this is what I did.

1)  Determine what type of character they wanted to play.
2)  Generate a "generic" character of that type (Actually I have a stable of NPCs)
3)  Go over the character with them and change it as needed for the type of play.
4)  After a few games see if I need to hone the concept.
5)  Upon leveling I let them recreate the character if they like (One time occurrence).

I had one fellow go buy the three PDFs and generate his own character.  Turned out to be the most interesting of them all.  I have never had ANYONE run a Astrologer as a PC.  Having fun with him.

[Arioch]

So, pregenerated character (or partially pregenerated) seems to be the most popular choice.
This actually gives me an idea: what about starting them at "level 0", with just adolescence ranks, profession bonuses and maybe a TP? I vaguely remember some discussions about level 0 adventuring...

(BTW, the players I'd like to introduce to RM aren't RPG newbies, but they all come from games with a much quicker character generation, like d&d or t&t. That's why I'd prefer to have them learn the creation process step by step rather than doing the characters myself, which is what I'd surely do for a newcomer)

[GrumpyOldFart]

That's why I'd prefer to have them learn the creation process step by step rather than doing the characters myself, which is what I'd surely do for a newcomer

That's why I was thinking in terms of a partial pre-gen, basically as a way of saying, "From what you've said, this is what I'd make. How does it differ from what you want? I'll show you how to work the system to get from here to there." And the process of making those changes shows them, rather than merely telling them, how it works.

Level 0 might work, but in the process you need to show them part of how you got there, so they'll have a clue what is needed to go to level 1.

[intothatdarkness]

I always looked at it as character generation being part of the setting, so we'd actually take a full session to determine origin and then discuss the options that sprang from that origin. Once they'd picked a race and roughed out an idea of profession based on what was available to that culture/race, the whole process of rolling went pretty quickly. I'd say we could go from nothing to a fully-developed 1st level character in about 2-3 hours (and this was with people who'd never played an RPG before). Of course, I didn't use the bulk of the Companions and had my world set up so that culture determined available professions, streamlining the process a bit. The cultural background also had some basics about beliefs and values, so players could start framing a character based on that before they even touched the dice.

[pastaav]

The first one is about a topic often discussed when people start talking about RM: the lenght of character generation.
Now, I'd like to introduce some new people to the game so what I'd want to do is to streamline the process and make it as quick as possible.
So, what tips, tricks and HRs do you have to speed up character creation?*
I'm thinking of using RMFRP, but I'd like to hear suggestions for any edition as I'm still not sure about it.

Pregens or partial pregens is a safe way to go...

If you want to speed up normal character creation...
*Show them a skill list with the skills you plan to use in your game/setting/story. No use forcing them to reject skills that you have no intention to using a game table
*Let them choose stat bonuses instead of stats and explain that each +1 means one more % in chance to succeed without training. The stat allocation system in the books may not be time consuming in itself, but a newbie must either let you do their chooses or aim in dark since they don't understand the game well enough to make stat selection. (random stats like RM2 is also a possible solution to this problem)
*Show the master NPC values for their profession and target level suggest that these values are reasonable targets if they want a balanced character.
*Drop Training package discounts and use the including skills in TPs as suggestions of skills to fit a concept. Training packages are badly balanced discounts where the benefit differ depending on profession, a newbie that can avoid sitting down and try to work out what TPs gives best cost benefit and fit their character concept is a happy newbie.
*Let them describe their characters background and you make suiting talent choices. Talents and background options are not balanced enough that all of them can fit any game and there is no use in forcing the newbie look at talents that you never will allow at your gaming table. 

[JimiSue]

A long time ago, in a game far, far, away (well actually about 28 or years and 20 miles, but hey ho ) I did some 0th level play. This was in the-system-that-became-the-one-that-is-not-to-be-named-but-at-the-time-was-pretty-much-The-System - which for the sake of brevity I will asume we are all adults and say the words "1st edition AD&D" without fainting.

I think it was a commercial module in which we were all basic 0th level farmer types recruited into the village militia to clear out some kobolds or something equally small. The idea was that we had to educate the DM as to the class we wanted to play through in character actions, and he would award a level in the relevant class to make us 1st level. It was actually a heap of fun to do. Not sure that works in a more flexible system like RM, but it's something I wouldn't mind having a go at.

[ironmaul]

I always looked at it as character generation being part of the setting, so we'd actually take a full session to determine origin and then discuss the options that sprang from that origin. Once they'd picked a race and roughed out an idea of profession based on what was available to that culture/race, the whole process of rolling went pretty quickly. I'd say we could go from nothing to a fully-developed 1st level character in about 2-3 hours (and this was with people who'd never played an RPG before). Of course, I didn't use the bulk of the Companions and had my world set up so that culture determined available professions, streamlining the process a bit. The cultural background also had some basics about beliefs and values, so players could start framing a character based on that before they even touched the dice.

This is very close to what "Run out the Guns" is. All pre-gen characters where relevant to the scene. It also had a good character an background handout scheme that made it fair for everyone. IMO I think this format is a good start for anyone introducing new people to RM.

[providence13]

I'd recommend linear stat gains.

Pregens are a good idea, with the caveat that they can be traded out for another character later on. I allow a few skills to be swapped, especially for less experienced players. No one should feel stuck with a concept. RM is such a malleable system that I don't see this happening too much with an experienced GM.

Let them know what their Adolescence ranks are good for.
Inexperienced players can easily become disenchanted with a game where they can't identify the local customs, mountain range, forest or town within  one days travel from their home, all because they never bought ranks in local lore skills. Let them know why this is important.
On the same note, each skill they bought should have a use that matters to that player.

Talents and Flaws.. maybe not even use them for the first group of characters. Definitely stream line the choices.

 

[Arioch]

Talents and Flaws.. maybe not even use them for the first group of characters. Definitely stream line the choices.

I don't think I will, even thought I might introduce them later if their characters survive long enough.

Reading your replies actually made me consider going for RMC, probably with little or no secondary skills, as it seems to make it easier to show them the creation process.

Edit: is ruin out the guns still available?

[ironmaul]

If I where to start playing again, I'd go RMC... I did originaly start with RMSS/FP. Both systems have good elements and even some of HARP element are quite good too.

Run Out the Guns is no longer available as far as I know. ICE owns the IP but whether it's financially viable to reprint it is something for John Seal to decide. It is a boxed set btw.

IIRC there was an opening for interested parties to purchase the license for ROtG...but as to date non have applied as far as I know. I think this IP has great potential to be very popular again like it did originally. It's something that I'd like to get involved in..from an artistic point of view.

[ironmaul]

ROtG on Amazon....one left.