Author Topic: Magent Shadow Assassin spell question  (Read 1436 times)

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Offline Jengada

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Re: Magent Shadow Assassin spell question
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2022, 02:51:29 PM »
Yarding all of this up, here's my take.
1 - Duration: there needs to be a finite duration on period of activity covered, or the magent can just cast once and be covered forever. The description says it covers deeds performed "while this spell is active" but doesn't specify what that period is. The period of activity coverage needs to be finite, but the effect of that coverage carries forward into the future, and any divination spells cast down the road will see the shadowed figure for any divination within that period of activity.
This gets to be a bit like asking what is the period of activity on a slaying spell. The spell's activity was just the slaying, but the after-effects are permanent.
2 - Activities covered: "All deeds performed" seems pretty comprehensive. Not just the act of putting the dagger into someone's heart, or pouring the poison into their wine. If you do it during the period the spell is active, it's shadowed.
3 - Power against counter-spells: The primary spells (using RMSS, though I am porting the spell into my RM2 game) for this would be Death's Memory (explicitly cited in the Shadow Assassin spell), the Past Vision Open Mentalism spells, and possibly the Vision Behind spells for Seers. Death's Memory shows an "vision of how someone died and an image of the killer," which the Shadow Assassin spell would force to only show the shadowy figure. It also has to be cast within 24 hours of death.
Past Vision and Vision Behind both show events associated with a place or item at a previous time, for a period of minutes to hours. Depending on what item was available or what the place is, this could allow the caster to see the assassin, or possibly not. If the assassin was carrying a dagger for 24 hours before casting Shadow Assassin, then killed someone and left the dagger, a Past Vision or Vision Behind spell going back to that period before Shadow Assassin was cast would see the assassin during that period. If they did not have the dagger, they couldn't trace back, and if they didn't go back to a time before Shadow Assassin, they would see the shadow.

I don't see having a 10 min/level time limit as nerfing Shadow Assassin at all. I don't see allowing it to cover other actions as making it too powerful. I do see making its period of effective concealment unlimited being very problematic. All a 4th level Magent needs to do is cast it and say "this is to conceal my actions leading up to the assassination of the High Priest of Mixor" and then never really try to assassinate that High Priest. They would be concealed from divination/scrying their entire career.
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Offline pastaav

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Re: Magent Shadow Assassin spell question
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2022, 04:12:16 PM »
I do see making its period of effective concealment unlimited being very problematic. All a 4th level Magent needs to do is cast it and say "this is to conceal my actions leading up to the assassination of the High Priest of Mixor" and then never really try to assassinate that High Priest. They would be concealed from divination/scrying their entire career.

That would indeed be a silly ruling...I doubt anyone does it like that.

Wanting to assassinate the High Priest of Mixor is not the same as doing an assassination so you cannot in my game cast the spell successfully just because you claim that you plan to kill a certain character. Instead, the Magent cast the spell when he has killed his target. He uses the spell afterward to protect his identity and the magic will interfere with any attempts to scry the event.

That all deeds the Magent did at the scene that could reveal his identity are covered is of course powerful, but with my ruling that it is limited to assassinations that seem fine in my book. Having the means to keep the plot mystery going no matter if the players have access to such spells is good for the story if you ask me.

Players working hard can use spells to determine where the assassin entered the place and use that to find witnesses that saw the assassin enter, but they cannot use the spell to get instant knowledge about who the assassin is.
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Offline jdale

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Re: Magent Shadow Assassin spell question
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2022, 04:26:34 PM »
4. Shadow Assassin – All deeds performed while this spell is active are "shadowed" to divination spells. All related visions gained through divination effect are shrouded in shadows. For example, a Death's Mastery cast on the scene of a murder might reveal a shadowy figure performing the deeds (but no details about the identity of the figure).

"All related visions gained through divination effect" seems pretty broad. Just moving your divination forward and backward through time seems like it would fall under that heading. I would never allow divination to observe the moment the magent goes from normal to shadowed. That transition would be shadowed. If they went back far enough for that transition to become ambiguous, they might discover that the magent was present, e.g. the magent was at the ball and later a shadowy figure appeared and murdered the duke, but it would never be clear who the shadowy figure was. (I did not compare the wording in other editions, this is from RMU.)

I also think the spell should cover all deeds during the duration. The word "assassin" is just color. Just like the spell list "Assassination Mastery" is not limited to assassinations, it can also be used for hunting, scouting, other combat, etc. The spells do what they do, the character decides how to use them.
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Magent Shadow Assassin spell question
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2022, 11:12:11 AM »
But even those without magical protection will take into account retrosurveillance when committing planned crimes. Wear masks during the crime. Approach and leave the crime through a dark, preferably complexly-branching area (intersecting alleys at night, sewer/drainage systems, etc.) or use Long Door several times to muddy the trail. Backtracking would be a normal thing to try, therefore also a normal thing to make difficult. Shadow Assassin simply eliminates the need for clumsy disguises/masks that waste time, create physical evidence, and make you suspicious on sight.

Also, depending on the judicial system, there may be a huge difference between a scryer testifying as a witness that you actually did the deed versus a scryer testifying that you were "seen in the area" around the time of the crime.
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