Topic: Alignment/Corruption

[mocking bird]

One nice thing about games, I don't have to suffer with that subjective morality stuff

lynn

Until you run into the objective game mechanics requiring subjective rulings, i.e. detection spells.

It seems also to be dependant on if you are talking about active or passive evil.  Do you only radiate evil while doing evil acts or do they somehow taint your aura for a while?

One thing I like about the mythic lists - they don't use good or evil, only an 'enemy of your god' and via the mark spell you can make anyone an enemy of your god.

[yammahoper]

Until you run into the objective game mechanics requiring subjective rulings, i.e. detection spells

Nope, as with all spells and rules, they are redefined to fit my game.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  And should I ever have the pleasure of sitting in at one of your games, I would expect the same.  In fact, considering your obvious level of exp as a GM, shocked if it were different.

 

lynn

[mocking bird]

Nope, as with all spells and rules, they are redefined to fit my game.  I wouldn't have it any other way.  And should I ever have the pleasure of sitting in at one of your games, I would expect the same.  In fact, considering your obvious level of exp as a GM, shocked if it were different.

The spells are defined per game/setting/GM and do require some fluidity.  Experience as GM yes, but I am lazy.   With such subjective material, I don't like having to make judgement calls repeatedly and attempt to maintain continuity.  Having some type of corruption 'evil-meter' or better definition as to what exactly the detection spells are detecting (like do I radiate evil if thinking evil thoughts or only if I act on them?).  It also helps the players and the GM play by the 'same rules'.  Don't get me wrong, I love theological/ethical/moral discussions and they can be quite intreguing while role-playing, however they can become tangential.

[yammahoper]

A tangent while gaming   While I never...

lynn

[mocking bird]

A tangent while gaming   While I never...

lynn

That's not what I heard.....

Although those discussions are a bit more interesting than talking about the Ironman movie or how to do X on WoW. 

Actually I got into such a discussion with the GM after last session - after everyone left - as to the motivations of my mythic of Klyssus.  I was a bit nervous as a party member started detecting evil and I was wondering about me as I also am blessed by the war god and have a demonic taint.  Fortunately I am 'only' Unholy as I haven't been that evil....yet...  However sending a flock of flying elven magicians & perhaps a dragon into an ambush by 15,000+ Rhankaan's next session might move me to a darker shade of grey.

[markc]

 In some games I keep a little chart for each of the values of law vs chaos, good vs evil. And then I use that to determin how the character is percieved by others. So it is sort of like a alignment system but I as GM keep it and move it around based on the characters actions. If the PC is getting out of line with his god I give him a warning and explain briefly what could happen. ie they enter a "friendly" temple and a glow appears around them telling the priest they are against thier god. Or they simply need to roll to get into the temple because it is protected by concencrations.

 You could also have a chart for any action/trait you want to track. Just let the PC's know what you are doing so thier is no confusion.

MDC

[Dark Schneider]

Maybe playing PC game NWN (Neverwinter Nights) could help, here the alignment system is 100 based, where 50 is neutral (I think I have copied it subconsciously), and depending on actions, the game (GM) adds or substract points.

In D&D the alignment is important for some professions (paladin, ranger, etc.), fortunately in RM this is not really important, channleing users don't need to worry while they follow their deity path (independent of alignement), and all others simply have no problem of any type.

I repeat that there are only 2 points: 'alignment confrontation' with magical items and detection spells. So this could not be very important.

So, your characters should choose their initial CPs (usually 40-60 for neutral), and then the gameplay can modify them.

For example:
- aid someone by a reward modify nothing.
- aid someone for no reward substracts you CPs, depending on risks, so if the adventure is dificult and players don't desist, you could subtract 15-20 CPs perfectly. If there is really deadly danger, GM could substract 30 CPs (this can be change neutral-to-good alignment).
- If you do an action that favor you and make little damage to others (that other one lose money but his life is not in danger) you can add 2-5 CPs.
- If you intentionally kill (direct or indirect) anyone for your own profit GM can adds you 30 CPs.

All this is subjective, so only gameplay can aid you to adjust it to your personal view of alignment.

[Arioch]

More than a system for handling moral issues (which are best left to roleplaying IMHO) I would like to have CPs coming from usage of "black" forbidden magic (like the "evil" lists in SL). Something like the Dark Side of star wars, the more you use it, the more you fall under its control. You're not going to become evil using black magic, but you'll probably become a puppet under the influence of the powers who control this kind of magic...

[yammahoper]

Corruption points subtract from SCSM, while "grace" points could add, providing real incentive to stay in the good graces of a religion.

Also, just one corruption point could indicate a SCSM is always required to cast spells.

This penalty would not apply when casting evil spells, creating a mechanical logic behind the seduction.

lynn

[Dark Schneider]

Corruption points subtract from SCSM

Better not, alignment or CPs should not be so important for playing (or casting), I think almost RM users use alignment at 99% as interpretation, and the other 1% for the points where are rules, as detection spells or other minor points.

while "grace" points could add

There are rules in channeling companion for that.
But maybe you want to say that the CPs substract for SCSM is only for channeling, but this is not really well, because divinity's alignment and way (or path) arte different things. For example, the 'divinity of nature', has him defined alignment?, probably not, but a channeling user must follow his way, caring nature, independent if character is good/neutral/evil.

For other realms, I really don't see why CPs should modify their SCSM.

[markc]

...I would like to have CPs coming from usage of "black" forbidden magic (like the "evil" lists in SL). ... You're not going to become evil using black magic, but you'll probably become a puppet under the influence of the powers who control this kind of magic...

?, are not corruption points one aspect of evil?

MDC

[Arioch]

?, are not corruption points one aspect of evil?

MDC

Yes (leaving out elemental corruption points and channeling corruption points), but the point is that I see them them linked only to the use of "evil" magic. IMHO they represent the influence of the forces of Evil over the character, so you don't need to be evil to be corrupted and being corrupted doesn't mean that you're truly evil. In many cases a corrupted character is just under the control of a greater power. If you use balck magic you'll get tainted by it and slowly your soul will be devoured...
This also mean that you can be evil and still have no corruption points at all (if you don't use evil spell lists).

[markc]

Arioch,
 I am trying to remember if your statment is how corruption is listed in the book or is it your oponion? Beacus I remember it saying that when you gain corruption points it will gradually change the way your character behaves to that of an "evil" being.

 Have you taling a look at Shades of Darkness? If I remember right, as I cannot find my copy since the big move, corruption was gained every from then enviroment as well as actions. I reminded me of the book The Wounded Land. They used the cleansing skill as well as spells to clean them daily of the taint.
MDC

[Arioch]

It's all in my opinion, or what I would like to see (I'm currently working on a CP system), in the book CP are completely different. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Have you taling a look at Shades of Darkness? If I remember right, as I cannot find my copy since the big move, corruption was gained every from then enviroment as well as actions.

That's interesting, thanks! IIRC in the guildcompanion someone once wrote an article with a similar mechanic...

[Arioch]

Here!

http://www.guildcompanion.com/scrolls/2000/jun/thecorruptionandtaintoftheunlife.html

[markc]

Arioch,
 Yes I have read the article on the GC as well. If you can though I would try and get a copy of The Shades of Darkness or read the Wounded Land by Donaldson I think. They both have a fresh look at corruption another thing you might take a look at is World of Darkness, wisdom section and actions that cause degration.

MDC

[Arioch]

Thanks for the suggestions! One question, are you talking about the old WoD or about the new one?

[markc]

 I am thinking about the new WoD as we have just switched to it from another sytem and I have had my head in the book for quite a while now. BTW not my choice to switch but you go wth the flow.
 But I think the rules in the old WoD could also be usefule, in the old system it was hummanity. But basicly the ne WoD has a table and depending on how high your stat is you must roll if you do some type of action and have your stst decreased. So if you had a high stat and you stole then you would make a roll and if you failed then your stat would go down. The stat system is 10 based so IMO 6-7 is average, goddy goody is 10 and monster is 1.   

MDC

[GrumpyOldFart]

I've been telling my players for years that I don't care what their alignment is. Because either
1) You don't channel Divine power, so why should anyone care, or
2) You *do* channel Divine power, in which case your God/dess doesn't care either. It has nothing to do with alignment per se, it has to do with living as what your God/dess would consider a "good example and role model". And always remember that what pleases your God/dess may be called heresy by your church.
YMMV, but that's my method of avoiding the whole issue.