Topic: Barrier Sight discussion - how does it work?

[ZuS]

Hi, people  

Once again here to discuss workings of a spell because it came up in a game of ours. Would appreciate input or official rulling that we might have missed on the matters. I will try to limit the post to just the essential questions and I will number them. You are VERY welcome to answer in the same fashion, allowing you to pick the questions you know answers to - thanks

First a few facts. Barrier Sight basically allows the Mage to see through barriers consisting of different materials. Base spell is wood, scaling option sare: stone, iron, metal and for +10 points any substance at all. the initial depth is 1" per rank, but can be scaled up substantially. The spell's target is the caster (NOT a particular barrier) and the literal wording in the spell description says "see through barriers" and "may see through 1" of wood for every spell rank". This technically implies that the caster is free to look through multiple different barriers during the duration of the spell and that the limit is just on the depth, but might not have been meant this way.

Here are the questions:
1) Does a scale to a certain material include the base material? Example: if I scale the spell to see through stone, can I now see through wood and stone?

2) Do the higher scales include the lower scales? Example: If I scale to metal, am I able to see through wood, stone and metal OR wood and metal OR just metal?

3) Since the spell allows the caster to see through "barriers" and is limited only by the depth of the material, does this mean that the caster can look through different barriers of appropriate material during the duration of the spell?

4) Does the spell allow the caster to see through multiple layers of appropriate material separated with air or other translucent material? Example: the house you want to look through has two layers of wood 5" thick each with a layer of isolating air separating the wooden layers by 4". Assuming your spell allows you to see through 12" of wood, can you see through the cumulative 10" of the wall, disregarding the 4" air isolation?

5) Does the word "barrier" in the spell mean an actual barrier (wall, hard cover, door) OR does the word barrier include any substance that interferes with sight (curtain, milk carton, pocket, shield, earth, human flesh)?

6.0) Can the caster specify the thickness of the material he wants to see through? Example 1: a thief picking a lock only wants to see through the first inch or even less of the metal of the lock, so that he can manipulate the visible internal mechanism of the lock. Example 2: you want to see through the metal door, but not through all the metal coins on the other side of the door. Example 3: You want to see something imbedded in a complex structure using the "any substance" scale, and you obviously don't want to see through the whole structure (operating an arrow head out of the body of a person; looking for an item in murky water; looking for brain in avg. american)

6.1) If the caster can specify the thickness of the material, can he change this specification while the spell is active? Example: A surgeon is looking through a human body to locate an arrow head, but he guessed the depth wrong and can now see through the body AND the arrow head, rendering it invisible. Does he have to recast the spell OR can he choose to see through less of the substance while the spell is active?

[Hawkwind]

ZuS,

Here are the answers as I interpret things:

1 & 2 - Yes, if you scale up to a higher rated material, the spell will still affect the lower rated material.

3 - Yes, that seems reasonable.

4 - That also seems reasonable.

5 - The only possibly doubtful material in that list is human flesh. If you are using the spell to see what someone is hiding behind themselves, then yes, I would allow it. If your were attempting to use the spell to see what was inside someone, then I'm inclined to not allow it.

6.0 - Example 1 - No, I don't think that is the intention of the spell, I think it would just penetrate the whole thing.
Example 2 - Yes, I think you could just see through the door and see the coins on the other side - that certainly seems to be the intent of the spell.
Example 3 - No, same as looking into a body. My reading of the spell doesn't give me the feeling that its intended to act as an x-ray machine.

6.1 - Yes, I believe the caster should be able to alter the thickness they are seeing through, but again, not to perform operations like the one in your example.

Again, these are just my interpretations of my reading of the spell - which in in The Codex for anyone else wishing to participate in this thread.

Hawk

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The intention of the spell was that as you scaled up, you were changing the substance that you can see through, not adding to the "list" of what can be seen through.

The amount of a substance that can be seen through is based upon the number of ranks in the spell, however, it is also important to realize that once past the barrier (i.e. wall or door or whatever), that your vision IS normal.

This means that if there is a tapestry hanging on the other side of the wall that you are looking through, you will see the backside of the tapestry as it is not part of the barrier that you are looking through.

A barrier is a SINGLE large object (such as a wall or door) that is blocking your vision/path. A person is not a barrier, nor is a flimsy curtain.

The answer to question #4 would be "No, you cannot see through both, unless they are part of a larger structure that is acting as a barrier" (i.e. if the two "walls" were part of a large door, then the answer would likely be yes, but if it were just 2 separate walls, then the answer would be no.

[ZuS]

The intention of the spell was that as you scaled up, you were changing the substance that you can see through, not adding to the "list" of what can be seen through.

The amount of a substance that can be seen through is based upon the number of ranks in the spell, however, it is also important to realize that once past the barrier (i.e. wall or door or whatever), that your vision IS normal.

This means that if there is a tapestry hanging on the other side of the wall that you are looking through, you will see the backside of the tapestry as it is not part of the barrier that you are looking through.

A barrier is a SINGLE large object (such as a wall or door) that is blocking your vision/path. A person is not a barrier, nor is a flimsy curtain.

The answer to question #4 would be "No, you cannot see through both, unless they are part of a larger structure that is acting as a barrier" (i.e. if the two "walls" were part of a large door, then the answer would likely be yes, but if it were just 2 separate walls, then the answer would be no.

Ah, always Rastyr with a clear answer. This forum needs more of you
Allow me to dwell a bit on the your answer regarding barrier as a single large object:
1) Can a caster see through multiple barriers per cast or just the ONE designated before casting?
2) Regarding multiple layers: a) would the caster see the back of the layer of paint on the other side of a wall barrier? b) would the caster be able to see through a wall of a house if it had isolation of air in between the two layers of wood? c) does "any material" scale (the 10PP one) allow the caster to see through an object consisting of JUST THAT ONE material designated prior to casting, or can you see through any material that the object might include (10" of stone, 3"of air and another 4" of wood - total of 17" of material in a typical wall of an isolated house)?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I would say just 1 barrier of up to the maximum thickness allowed.

Forget "layers". A barrier is a barrier. it doesn't matter if it is painted or plastered, or stuccoed. They can either see through it or not. The wall you described is a modern wall, not likely to be found in a fantasy setting, but it would be considered a single barrier or wall, and thus, if it were not covered by one of the other scaling options, the maximum one would cover it.

the reason a tapestry would block vision is because it is not part of the barrier, it is hung on the barrier. Paint, on the other hand is part of the barrier.