Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: Terry K. Amthor on October 01, 2019, 08:28:52 AM
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Question for GMs and players: who has had contact with the Priests Arnak and/or the powers of the Iron Wind in their Shadow World games? And if so, how did that go?
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I had PCs encounter the priests in the Iron Wind way back when we first started playing. I also had PCs face a priest in Tanara when I started playing RM again in the late 2000s; we were playing RM2 just before the RMu beta rules came out.
I like the priests as a good foil to the PCs (and the Unlife as the shadowy Big Bad Evil Guy that the PCs can never truly defeat). I also love the special spell lists the priests had in the Powers of Light and Darkness addendum.
So, overall, big thumbs up for the priests, as they are pretty unique in serving a power that can't really be overcome (just foiled), and for having unique spell lists that throw players for a loop.
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I have plans to use the Iron Wind in the game I am setting in the Bay of Izar.
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Here and there through our travels in Jaiman.
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I had the players encounter a Priest Arnak during a campaign, he looked like a good mannered blacksmith. Upon talking with the party, they realized his intentions were extortive, and delayed making any commitment to his requests.
On a second meeting, he became more blunt in his attitude, the party was certain he was dangerous (he was bribing them but I can't remember more than that). The party mentalist forced him to give them the bag of coins he was offering, and they quickly retreated.
They felt so smart, having outwitted the dangerous man. The coins were cursed and they all lived the following adventures with a percentage of their total hits points (based on a secret RR to the curse). They made some comments after some difficult fight that they didn't expect to be so penalized, but they only learned the truth after we finished the campaign.
On another campaign (or maybe it was the same) they spent a whole adventure pursuing a mysterious spell user that used metal spells, shooting metal darts, raising metal doors, and finally escaping through a metal portal (all using the special spell lists).
And the Snow Lion messengers were quite the threat during a campaign in Xa-Ar, one or two of them achieved a TPK, and they learned to fear them.
There may be more, but those are the ones I remember right now.
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I am currently using them in my current adventure, hunting the players in Nomokos trying to recover an ancient Artifact. So far they are a present but mysterious danger. One of my players is a Priest of Reann who is a Prophet Background. So this is right up his alley. Having fun with it so far.
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I will confess that I am asking because I am introducing them in later adventures in Haalkitaine, though PCs already familiar with the Iron Wind might find a new challenge dealing with them and their minions in a city environment. Thargondaak and Dansart are vying for control of the city...
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At the moment I am using them as a motivation plot to continue with the adventure. The PC's are escorting a Mystic and his Changarian Bodyguard to bring an Artifact Crown of immense power to the Dragon Lord Voriig Kye. They are being chased by the Priests of Arnak as well as Dunna Revin the Chancellor of Magic in Norek who discovered the find. She hired a mercenary company called the Black Company who have been harassing the PC's throughout the venture, towards the agents of Arnak. So now they have summoned a Navagator to get them to Nomokos for Protection and research on some magic that PC's are inventing and any substance about the crown. The agents have come into contact with the PC's here and they are trying to get out and travel to Vog Mur.
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I will confess that I am asking because I am introducing them in later adventures in Haalkitaine, though PCs already familiar with the Iron Wind might find a new challenge dealing with them and their minions in a city environment. Thargondaak and Dansart are vying for control of the city...
That's pretty how I've been planning to use them myself. Various Iron Wind factions seeking to undermine local government, and a faction or factions of generally decent folk secretly working against them.
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My PC's managed to revive and extract Mornan Zaon (I think that was his name; it was the Zorian king who was suspended in one of the Zorian royal tombs), who then rewarded them by offering to make them dukes, if they helped him restore the kingdom. Naturally, this made them enemies of both Emperor Jerrin (who was not above threatening several of the PCs families) and the Priests Arnak, who were quite put out that a kingdom they thought long dead and taken care of was trying to rise again.
The Priests mostly worked indirectly against the PCs, keeping them from getting very far in truly reviving Zor as a functional kingdom by importing beasts, supporting the mutants, and funding bandits and raiders. The only time a large scale combat arose was when the PCs went to the Aalk Gaath (Oran Jatar's stronghold) and eventually got into a fight, but that's a long story.
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I love reading about how you creative GMs have taken my SW concepts and NPCs, and developed them in such awesome new ways. 8)
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The Priests Arnak & The Iron Wind are the focus of my campaign. They are a feature that bought me to the Shadow World to begin with. The Unlife bring an epic & horrific scope to my campaign.
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I think for my next 'Adventure-size' module after I finish Haalkitaine, I will do the citadel of Dansart in Zor. Some of you will remember this from the unfinished campaign I did back in the '90s; it had no labels or detailed information. This time I will do it right with complete labelled layouts, encounters and stats, including special spells available to the high-priest Osaran.
It will also tie-in as a possible sequel to Haalkitaine...
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Back in The day (BITD) I glued Mur Fostisyr into my RM2 game world and dispatched a group of PCs on an Icerigger expedition, lead by a Magedrake, to the far north to encounter the various factions therein. A post wouldn't be able to summary the campaign easily - part 1 was to seize the Navigator's Compass held by Denirok and part 2 was to confront the Syrkakang. However, I can attach the following blog post http://www.campaignnook.com/2019/10/the-saga-of-skyreave.html (http://www.campaignnook.com/2019/10/the-saga-of-skyreave.html) which was a summary of the email sent to the players prior to each session - perhaps everyone might find it an interesting browse. (Have a PDF version for those interested - couldn't attach it.)
Perceptive might recognize a PC name or two from ROCO IV or VII.
Enjoy,
Old Man
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I think for my next 'Adventure-size' module after I finish Haalkitaine, I will do the citadel of Dansart in Zor. Some of you will remember this from the unfinished campaign I did back in the '90s; it had no labels or detailed information. This time I will do it right with complete labelled layouts, encounters and stats, including special spells available to the high-priest Osaran.
It will also tie-in as a possible sequel to Haalkitaine...
That sounds great! I wrote a little scenario for my recent Gencon session, 'The Wastes of Zor', which was set there (the adventurers started in Haalkitaine and then proceeded into the wastes), so I would love to have more stuff there. I am thinking of setting my next full campaign in the Green Gryphon Inn, so all of this would make for a rich campaign.
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Oh, tons. That quest giver? Priest Arnak. The fellow who let you ride cheap on his ship? Priest Arnak, keeping tabs. Fellow who popped up and saved your bacon at that last encounter? Say it with me now: Priest Arnak who's not about to see their plot foiled just because you forgot who the pointy end of the sword goes in. The Iron Wind is everywhere and not at all obvious until it's too late.
Oh, you thought those were Loremasters? Yeah, they get that alot.
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Oh, tons. That quest giver? Priest Arnak. The fellow who let you ride cheap on his ship? Priest Arnak, keeping tabs. Fellow who popped up and saved your bacon at that last encounter? Say it with me now: Priest Arnak who's not about to see their plot foiled just because you forgot who the pointy end of the sword goes in. The Iron Wind is everywhere and not at all obvious until it's too late.
Oh, you thought those were Loremasters? Yeah, they get that alot.
TravisBickleClapping.gif
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Oh, tons. That quest giver? Priest Arnak. The fellow who let you ride cheap on his ship? Priest Arnak, keeping tabs. Fellow who popped up and saved your bacon at that last encounter? Say it with me now: Priest Arnak who's not about to see their plot foiled just because you forgot who the pointy end of the sword goes in. The Iron Wind is everywhere and not at all obvious until it's too late.
Oh, you thought those were Loremasters? Yeah, they get that alot.
;D Love it! Sounds like a certain Priest Arnak tutoring a ducal heir in a novel as well :-)
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I think for my next 'Adventure-size' module after I finish Haalkitaine, I will do the citadel of Dansart in Zor. Some of you will remember this from the unfinished campaign I did back in the '90s; it had no labels or detailed information. This time I will do it right with complete labelled layouts, encounters and stats, including special spells available to the high-priest Osaran.
It will also tie-in as a possible sequel to Haalkitaine...
That sounds great! I wrote a little scenario for my recent Gencon session, 'The Wastes of Zor', which was set there (the adventurers started in Haalkitaine and then proceeded into the wastes), so I would love to have more stuff there. I am thinking of setting my next full campaign in the Green Gryphon Inn, so all of this would make for a rich campaign.
Sounds great! Love to hear how the Green Gryphon goes. Many such journeys are possible...
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I had PCs in "contact" with Priests Arnak several times, but I do not think that many of them are significant because they were straightforward antagonists (and combat opponents), or spies that they did not uncovered or suspected.
One PC, however, actually had a fairly lengthy discussion with a Priest Arnak when she was captured during a foray in Mur Fostisyr. The goal of the priest was not to destroy her, but to convert her. I asked the player afterwards and she agreed that having a smiling, polite and charismatic priest Arnak (the NPC never hid who he was) was much more terrifying than having a summoned demon lick her character and ask for a piece of her soul as treat. Especially since, during her escape, this particular priest watched everything and did nothing.
That priest Arnak was not a sadist or a bully. He was a scholar who was convinced that Unlife was the ultimate salvation for people because it brought peace: it was a refuge from pain, war, sorrow and the tribulations of hard life. It was the state that everyone secretely yearned for without being able to name it - darkness and warmth from before the pain of birth. He knew how to read people, how to gently point out where they hurt and how they resented the world and unwanted changes, how they wished they were unknowing and unfeeling.
The kind of person who would convince you that poisoning your pregnant wife is a blessing for both mother and child - and would not need magic to do so.
But thankfully, most priests Arnak are in it for power, personal pleasure or revenge. Otherwise Kulthea would be a dead world.
[one problem with having priests Arnak everywhere is that RM magic is crawling with investigation spells which do not require RRs, especially in Mentalism and Channeling - and PCs are notoriously suspicious. And my take is that priests Arnak know that they are vulnerable to investigation magic, so they most often act through proxies. There are ways to hide from investigation spells, but they are used only when proxies are not convenient, which is not that often]
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[one problem with having priests Arnak everywhere is that RM magic is crawling with investigation spells which do not require RRs, especially in Mentalism and Channeling - and PCs are notoriously suspicious. And my take is that priests Arnak know that they are vulnerable to investigation magic, so they most often act through proxies. There are ways to hide from investigation spells, but they are used only when proxies are not convenient, which is not that often]
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Excellent point, and I would suggest that Priests get a RR, and perhaps even their rings give them resistance to detection spells, especially 'Detect Evil.' And also there are not so many priests. There are 6 High Priests, perhaps 24-36 priests at any given time, across Jaiman, and many lackeys.
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one problem with having priests Arnak everywhere is that RM magic is crawling with investigation spells which do not require RRs, especially in Mentalism and Channeling - and PCs are notoriously suspicious. And my take is that priests Arnak know that they are vulnerable to investigation magic, so they most often act through proxies. There are ways to hide from investigation spells, but they are used only when proxies are not convenient, which is not that often]
Excellent point, and I would suggest that Priests get a RR, and perhaps even their rings give them resistance to detection spells, especially 'Detect Evil.' And also there are not so many priests. There are 6 High Priests, perhaps 24-36 priests at any given time, across Jaiman, and many lackeys.
I must admit that I don't like to make blanket exceptions to the rules. I have enough trouble as it is with magic items that cannot be built with the alchemy rules as they are written...
It is easier to have the priests keep to the shadows and order their minions. And I am completely OK with the numbers you list above - that means both that a priest is always at the center of a web of minions who do the work for them (except when the work needs a hand that only the priest can provide), and that removing a priest is always a blow to the order.
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[one problem with having priests Arnak everywhere is that RM magic is crawling with investigation spells which do not require RRs, especially in Mentalism and Channeling - and PCs are notoriously suspicious. And my take is that priests Arnak know that they are vulnerable to investigation magic, so they most often act through proxies. There are ways to hide from investigation spells, but they are used only when proxies are not convenient, which is not that often]
I played a Mentalist in a Shadow World campaign years ago. Using the Presence List wasn't too helpful as Feel typing spells all allow Resistance Rolls. Our group Channeler had better luck with Detect Evil from the Lore List but still allows a RR.
If the PCs are incrediabily powerful (or lucky with open-ended rolls) :
1) Misfeel spells can counter ( in Magent and Mystic lists)
2) other powerful individuals in the vicinity may take offense to "random probing"
3) even if the PCs get a positive ID from a spell, it is their word against the accused priest. These guys usually have a lot of political clout...so if a PC points a finger at a well respected "pillar of the community", who will the town guard throw in jail?
The G.M. played the politcally entrenched priests wonderfully. We could interefere with their plans, but the job never ended because we never got a "smoking gun" to connect them to any wrong doing. Like The Three Musketeers against the Cardinal. We take out a henchman and foil a plot. Same guy is still sitting comfortably, smiling at us.
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[one problem with having priests Arnak everywhere is that RM magic is crawling with investigation spells which do not require RRs, especially in Mentalism and Channeling - and PCs are notoriously suspicious. And my take is that priests Arnak know that they are vulnerable to investigation magic, so they most often act through proxies. There are ways to hide from investigation spells, but they are used only when proxies are not convenient, which is not that often]
I played a Mentalist in a Shadow World campaign years ago. Using the Presence List wasn't too helpful as Feel typing spells all allow Resistance Rolls. Our group Channeler had better luck with Detect Evil from the Lore List but still allows a RR.
All "P" type spells only allow RRs (and they only allow it at GM's discretion) to determine if the target is aware of the spell. It does NOT prevent the spell from working as indented. Worst case for the PC, the Priest Arnak is aware that a detection spell has been cast on them, but does not know what spell, and might not even know who the caster was (the "Feel" spells indicate that "the target must first be located by Presence of Presence True", indicating that LOS is apparently not required for the spell).
As almost all detection spells are P spells, almost all of them cannot be resisted naturally. The only regular way to foil them is to misdirect, but not all classes have access to misdirection spells and they happen to be of limited duration. Furthermore, having spells active at all times also draws attention because it triggers other detection spells.
Priests Arnak who are public figures (some of them are) *must* have that kind of protection, because their everyday role requires it. The others ? Not so much, and I would assume that (since the Priests Arnak come from various professions) that they tend to select their "public faces" from those who have suitable professions, but most of them do not need it on a daily basis - their most potent defense is to avoid attracting attention - there is nothing worse than being on the receiving end of a well-timed Mind Typing spell, and being Mind Stored is just one step away from being GPS tracked.
If the PCs are incrediabily powerful (or lucky with open-ended rolls) :
1) Misfeel spells can counter ( in Magent and Mystic lists)
2) other powerful individuals in the vicinity may take offense to "random probing"
3) even if the PCs get a positive ID from a spell, it is their word against the accused priest. These guys usually have a lot of political clout...so if a PC points a finger at a well respected "pillar of the community", who will the town guard throw in jail?
Why would they do that ? If the PCs are really willing to cross a Priest Arnak, they will certainly not try to move against them politically unless they have more powerful allies, but PCs can be driven to radical solutions and mystic-like powers can work both ways - "accidents" may happen, and Priests Arnak in a social environment cannot bring the full strength of the Orders to protect themselves physically (those Messengers are not really subtle), so a well-timed ambush or assassination helped by a few misdirection spells can both get rid of the Priest and obfuscate investigation.
And as far as I'm concerned, the Priests Arnak *know* they are vulnerable to determined people. Their best defence is to avoid being in the same place as those pesky troubleshooters and work indirectly whenever possible. I would go so far as to assume that they only work directly when they need to use their power (for subversion or corruption, for instance - there are a number of examples given in the books) and cannot trust proxies to do it.
But otherwise ? They are, as Terry put it, about 30-40 Priests for a whole continent. Micro-managing every little plot will get them nowhere, especially since there is a something as a chain of command and some of them must have support or coordination roles. Add to that the fact that they also must conduct investigation on rival parties and work to consolidate the footholds they have, and they have to intervene personally on a long-term basis when trying to corrupt a specific target... and that pretending to fulfill a public role consumes a large amount of time, and they simply don't have the time to worry about adventurers personally. After all, if they retreat to the shadows for a decade or two, the impact on their long-term plan is negligible, so why take the chance ?
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[one problem with having priests Arnak everywhere is that RM magic is crawling with investigation spells which do not require RRs, especially in Mentalism and Channeling - and PCs are notoriously suspicious. And my take is that priests Arnak know that they are vulnerable to investigation magic, so they most often act through proxies. There are ways to hide from investigation spells, but they are used only when proxies are not convenient, which is not that often]
I played a Mentalist in a Shadow World campaign years ago. Using the Presence List wasn't too helpful as Feel typing spells all allow Resistance Rolls. Our group Channeler had better luck with Detect Evil from the Lore List but still allows a RR.
All "P" type spells only allow RRs (and they only allow it at GM's discretion) to determine if the target is aware of the spell. It does NOT prevent the spell from working as indented. Worst case for the PC, the Priest Arnak is aware that a detection spell has been cast on them, but does not know what spell, and might not even know who the caster was (the "Feel" spells indicate that "the target must first be located by Presence of Presence True", indicating that LOS is apparently not required for the spell). As almost all detection spells are P spells, almost all of them cannot be resisted naturally.
You hit the nail on the head with “GM's discretion”. I was a player, not the GM. How many times has a GM explained to you why your character's spell didn't work mid-session?
The only regular way to foil them is to misdirect, but not all classes have access to misdirection spells and they happen to be of limited duration. Furthermore, having spells active at all times also draws attention because it triggers other detection spells.
I specifically mentioned the spell Misfeel as a possibility. Again, I was a player not the GM, so I can't give you the exact solution as to how the “suspected” Priest Arnak was protected.
Priests Arnak who are public figures (some of them are) *must* have that kind of protection, because their everyday role requires it. The others ? Not so much, and I would assume that (since the Priests Arnak come from various professions) that they tend to select their "public faces" from those who have suitable professions, but most of them do not need it on a daily basis - their most potent defense is to avoid attracting attention - there is nothing worse than being on the receiving end of a well-timed Mind Typing spell, and being Mind Stored is just one step away from being GPS tracked.
Yes, it would be suicidal for a Priest Anark to walk into say a Temple of Orhan. Either someone would detect their nature, or notice that they were protected and thus raise questions about how and why they were shielded.
The particular individual we suspected was wealthy and politically connected. Everyone loved them. You mentioned walking up and using a “well-timed” Mind Typing spell. The individual was definitely aware of our spellcasting (through GM-only-knowns means).
The local authorities “encouraged” our characters to leave the suspect alone in the after we attempted just what you suggested. The GM made it clear we would be fighting the whole city guard if we pushed that particular button again.
If the PCs are incrediabily powerful (or lucky with open-ended rolls) :
1) Misfeel spells can counter ( in Magent and Mystic lists)
2) other powerful individuals in the vicinity may take offense to "random probing"
3) even if the PCs get a positive ID from a spell, it is their word against the accused priest. These guys usually have a lot of political clout...so if a PC points a finger at a well respected "pillar of the community", who will the town guard throw in jail?
Why would they do that ? If the PCs are really willing to cross a Priest Arnak, they will certainly not try to move against them politically unless they have more powerful allies, but PCs can be driven to radical solutions and mystic-like powers can work both ways - "accidents" may happen, and Priests Arnak in a social environment cannot bring the full strength of the Orders to protect themselves physically (those Messengers are not really subtle), so a well-timed ambush or assassination helped by a few misdirection spells can both get rid of the Priest and obfuscate investigation.
Funny you should mention assassins and Heralds..... There was an attempt on our party...he was just a local thug and couldn't trace him back to anyone important. My Mentalist gave him “the works” only to find out someone else had been in his head first and pretty much cleaned-house. Might have just chalked that one up to offending the rich-boys club, but, the Herald that chased us after we actually left town kinda gave us the feeling maybe we had pushed the “right” button.
And as far as I'm concerned, the Priests Arnak *know* they are vulnerable to determined people. Their best defence is to avoid being in the same place as those pesky troubleshooters and work indirectly whenever possible. I would go so far as to assume that they only work directly when they need to use their power (for subversion or corruption, for instance - there are a number of examples given in the books) and cannot trust proxies to do it.
You are free to keep your opinion. My former GM definately had a Priest at work in the city. Whether or not it was this particular "suspect" I cannot confirm.
But otherwise ? They are, as Terry put it, about 30-40 Priests for a whole continent. Micro-managing every little plot will get them nowhere, especially since there is a something as a chain of command and some of them must have support or coordination roles. Add to that the fact that they also must conduct investigation on rival parties and work to consolidate the footholds they have, and they have to intervene personally on a long-term basis when trying to corrupt a specific target... and that pretending to fulfill a public role consumes a large amount of time, and they simply don't have the time to worry about adventurers personally. After all, if they retreat to the shadows for a decade or two, the impact on their long-term plan is negligible, so why take the chance ?
Nice short-essay. I agree. Thirty to forty Priests can get a lot done.
But you are wrong on your assumption that he was a political official. I said he was “politically entrenched,” by which I mean “connected” not “serving”.
This fellow was only in the city for a few years. He had a lot of money to throw around which apparently made him a lot of friends in key places. He can go on his merry way in a few years having put the “right” people in power to make decisions and policies.
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Would you think the Priest Arnak would necessarily know he is one? Something along the lines of he knows he is in a cult / organisation, which he thinks is one thing, but its not until he reaches the inner circle that the true identity is revealed.