Topic: Athletic VS Physical skills

[Mr. Fixit]

Apologies if this has been brought up before, but I am a little muddled in my head over Athletic vs Physical skills.  Keep in mind, I have been playing and running HARP for quite some time and am just now nit-picking this comparison, so it is not a criticism, just seeing what others might have to say.

The Athletic Category contains Acrobatics, Climbing and Contortions.  The Physical Category contains Endurance, Jumping, Swimming and Armor.
The thing that makes me scratch my head for the most part is Climbing.  I think the merits of Climbing as more Athletic than Physical could be debated all day, which is true of just about any of the skills in each Category, but it seems such a crucial skill for most adventurers and is grouped with two other skills which are mostly geared for Monks and the occasional Thief or purpose built Rogue. Rangers (the ultimate outdoorsmen) do not get Athletics as a Favored Category and are left to buy Climbing at an increased price.  This just feels odd to me.

I kinda lead toward switching Climbing with Jumping.  Any one else have some input?   

[Thom @ ICE]

IMO

Physical skills are single exertions requiring either strength or constitution (though I personally think Armor skills belongs better in Combat).

Athletics are skillls that require combined or complex abilities.  Acrobatics requires agility, quickness and strength.
Climbing requires strength, agility, quickness.
Contortions are complex in nature and do not fit into any specific abilities.

[Uriel]

I'm actually leaning towards combining the two categories, since I feel (As do all of the 9 people that I have turned on to HARP, just as an aside) that they are far closer as a skill group than, say many of the General skills (Yes, I know, General is where odd skills go to feel loved too...I'm looking at you, Mundane Lores...).


Still, does combining the two seem so far-fetched?

-Uriel

[Mr. Fixit]

No, it doesn't at all. I was thinking the same thing, but thought it would mess with Profession Favored Category balance.

Chosen, I am a little confused about your statement about Acrobatics and Climbing.  You list them with 3 stat bonuses. Is that just descriptive or are you adding a third stat bump to each?

[WoeRie]

Dangerous idea. Removing a category could mess with favoured categories. So my suggestion would be:

1) Move Endurance to General (to leave it favoured for all, as before).
2) Move Armor to Combat (I think Chosen GM feels right, here - and is only required for arms users).
3) Swimming and Jumping I would move to Athletic.

The next problem are the free starting ranks. I would try not to define a new favoured category. So, moving the points evenly between General, Combat and Athletic, but only if they are already favoured. In the worst case this would result that everything is moved to General.

[Cloven-Fruit-Games]

The main difference being Physical are much more common skills.
Physical is a skill in which EVERYONE is favored, thus skills that are athletic like that need to be accessed by everyone is belong to Physical.

Endurance, Jumping, Swimming, and Armor are all thing that in most Middle Ages societies would be common.

A wizard does not access combat, but he would likely wear some armor.

Climbing I can see going to Physical, if it were common for that society (which could also be done by use of skills gained form Culture background).

[ondoheer]

I would disagree with that latest point, since swimming wasn't at all common in the Middle Ages, only people who lived near a river or had to go into the sea or rapid waters to fish or work were swimmers. Using your description of physical skills being the most common used, I would trade swimming for climbing.

I hadent thought about this at all, but it makes sense, I will discuss it with my players.

[Thom @ ICE]

Chosen, I am a little confused about your statement about Acrobatics and Climbing.  You list them with 3 stat bonuses. Is that just descriptive or are you adding a third stat bump to each?

Simply descriptive commentary....

[Cloven-Fruit-Games]

I would disagree with that latest point, since swimming wasn't at all common in the Middle Ages, only people who lived near a river or had to go into the sea or rapid waters to fish or work were swimmers. Using your description of physical skills being the most common used, I would trade swimming for climbing.

That would depend on where one is located. England is an island, criss-crossed with many streams, rivers, ponds, and lakes.
Even Italy has many bodies of water in which one would have to learn to swim. Most of Western Europe and the Mediterranean swimming would be common.

Climbing is likely not included as it is also a skill for climbing up castle walls, or walls of houses to break into such. Climbing that would be common would not require a roll, thus it is not placed in Physical. Climbing that does require a roll is more uncommon, thusly placed in Athletic.

In any case, you can move climbing to Physical, or swimming to Athletic.
It all depends on the background of the character and world.
If playing in a mountainous world, climbing might be very common. If playing in a heavily treed world with very large trees climbing might be very common. However if the world does not have rock outcroppings, cliffs, and very large tress that are common; the character is less likely to have climbing skills. Thus the climbing becomes an athletic skill.
If playing in an island world (mostly water with lots of small islands), swimming might be very common. If playing in a heavily water world (lots of streams, rivers, ponds, lakes, et all) swimming might be very common. However if the world larger bodies of water that are common; the character is less likely to have swimming skills. Thus the swimming becomes an athletic skill.