Topic: Turn Blade & turn missile

[Holdner]

How you're using this spells?

It's not spicified if it affects to the first attack after the spell is cast, or it can be trigged someway to avoid to an specific attack or even you allow players to cast it after the attack roll is made. Did you even face the chance to let the spell be "hold" until it's discharged (once at a time of course)

If you're too strict these spells are worthless most of the time

[Ecthelion]

For these two low-level spells we require that the character casts such a spell in the Snap Action Phase of a combat round. When he later gets attacked and sees the incoming attack he can add the 20 to his DB (or subtract from the opposing roll). So you have to declare the spell in the Declaration Phase and it has to be cast prior to the attack in a given round and you of course have to fulfill the spells conditions like seeing the attack.

For the higher-level spells Bladeturn and Deflections we do allow casting the spell even if it was not declared and the character is allowed to cast this when he sees the attack come in. But we never allow such a spell to be cast after the opposing attack roll was made.

[Warl]

Are not these spells Instantaneous (you talking the shielding ways list or another?) I treat these spells as truly instantaneous. As long as the caster hasn't cast another spell, and/or has enough action % left in the round, they can cast this spell at the time of being attacked to defend themselves. (as long as they see the attack coming.)

[HawksNut]

Are not these spells Instantaneous (you talking the shielding ways list or another?) I treat these spells as truly instantaneous. As long as the caster hasn't cast another spell, and/or has enough action % left in the round, they can cast this spell at the time of being attacked to defend themselves. (as long as they see the attack coming.)

This is how we play it too. I allow the spelcaster to use it as a last ditch defense.

[Cory Magel]

Ditto here.  You don't need to declare instant spells with our groups.  I'll even go a step father and allow multiple non-offensive instants spells.

[Warl]

Ditto here.  You don't need to declare instant spells with our groups.  I'll even go a step father and allow multiple non-offensive instants spells.

So as long as it isn't the Instant Silent but deadly spell.. your okay with it :-P

[Cory Magel]

That exception (no multiple offensive instants) came due to the fact that a character had developed the instant version of absolution.  That could have gotten out of hand.

[Warl]

I just don't apply a penalty when casting instantaneous spells.

[jdale]

Since we are doing movement first and then action, declarations are made only on your turn or when attacked (whichever comes first). Otherwise there's no need. So, declaring an instant defensive spell is easy enough. It's usually clear at the point who is attacking who.

The ones I'm not sure about are things like Bladeturn III. I think I will probably rule that it will work against the next X attacks as long as they come in X rounds. E.g. Bladeturn III can be spread over 3 rounds, while Bladeturn V could be over 5 rounds. No need for concentration or holding the spell, but if the attacks don't come in that time frame, the remainder is lost. And "next X attacks" means it is not selective, you can't pick and choose once the spell is cast.

[MariusH]

We, too, consider these spells "truly instantanous". They differ from ordinary instant spells in that they don't have to be declared, and can be cast at any time. The only restriction we have for these spells, is the "max one spell pr. round", which prevents you from using them if you've already cast a spell this round. Also, if you had declared more than 90% action, you'll have to cancel actions, since the spell takes 10% activity.

So we use it like this: Dryan the mage declares preparation of a cold ball, while Grog the fighter declares an attack on the puny orc. However, during normal phase, after Grogs attack, a Troll comes storming into the cave, charging Grog, who cannot parry since he already had attacked the orc (otherwise he could cancel action and parry against the troll with a -40 penalty). Dryan then casts "Blade Turn" instantanously, but his cold ball preparaion is now interrupted by this spell (spells cast always interrupts preparations), and he'll have to start preparing it all over next turn - or probably do something a bit faster to deal with the imminent troll threat.

[Ravenheart]

Instant spells, have to declare first.

"Subtract 20" means -20% from attacker's OB before roll. This adds some punch to this spell and makes more sense. Same goes for subtract 50.That halves the OB of the attacker. We don't use the old -100 Bladeturns or such anymore.

The spell caster has to see the attack first. Mentalism user can cast the spell only for himself. Other realm casters can cast it for others as well, although the channelling spell casters regularly don't cast it on non-cultists in our campaign in fear of losing grace (Channelling Companion).

These spells take effect only on max "medium" attack sizes. Of course, if the attacking weapon is magic resistant, this spell won't help. In our campaign (Glorantha) iron is such a metal.

[Ecthelion]

These spells take effect only on max "medium" attack sizes. Of course, if the attacking weapon is magic resistant, this spell won't help. In our campaign (Glorantha) iron is such a metal.

Is that from the rules or a house rule? Because I think the rules don't make these restrictions.

[PAD the MAD]

An extension to the question - How do you handle Bladeturn II or higher?

I tend to go with instant cast on the incoming attack, and the next attack(s) that are seen...

[Cory Magel]

The actual rules for Bladeturn indicate that it can be used up as attacks come in over time.  There has been some discussion about this in the past and different people try to interpret it differently, but in my opinion a Bladeturn II can be used over the course of more than one round... the question then becomes does this constitute concentration?  I do not believe there's anything in the books that address that.  I can't recall what we've done in the past (or if it really came up), but I would rule that you just need to retain the 10% availability in following rounds to use it and that any OTHER instants cast would cancel it.

[providence13]

Of Ess: 15.9 MULTIPLE TARGETS
When casting a spell that can affect multiple targets, the caster can concentrate in order to “hold” the spell until it can be applied to the allowed number of targets. For instance, a spell user casting Deflections II may “hold” the spell until two missiles have been fired at the caster and deflected.

I also allow caster to "hold" a spell until the maximum number of targets. Casting Bladeturn II you could apply it to 2 attacks this round or 1 attack now and 1 attack later. Holding requires concentration, 50%Act. That can be a big sacrifice in combat.
This is risky, because you now have "declared" that next rnd you are maintaining the spell. 50%Act to hold and C burns exhaustion.
(I almost never use exhaustion, but I do consider it for extended actions; dashing, chopping wood and then being attacked, wearing heavy armor in the desert. This way, most people can't hold spells for very long.)

For my games, instant spells don't have to be declared at the beginning of your turn. We use instants as a reaction to events, mostly defensive and reflex magical training.
In my mind, the precedent here are subconscious spells. Those spells imply that a caster's mind, aura, magic essence, whatever, is always a bit active.
How would a caster live long enough to become powerful if they had to declare a bladeturn, when another spell (of their 1 spell/rnd limit) would have saved them? Your game may vary.

The duration on most of these spells is "--", no duration. The effects happen immediately, right then and there. As above, you can hold a spell (with C) until the max number of targets are affected.

I do like the idea that you have to cast it after your attacker has stated their intent and before their roll.
As a house rule, we also allow 1 instant and 1 standard spell to be cast in the same rnd. You can cast a spell and still have your reflexive magic work too.

(I could see an argument for requiring initiative, but I would not use it for our game.)