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Combat Round Sequence, what rules do you play by in your game?
Druss_the_Legend:
This is what I was previously using but am considering a revamp of combat round resolution. IM always looking for ways to streamline combat and speed it up or simplify it without losing too much of what makes combat fun.
At start of combat round:
DECLARE ACTION TYPE - prior to your initiative roll choose one of the 3 action types:
1) Fast Action (snap)
2) Normal Action
3) Slow Action (deliberate)
Individual initiative is used. Initiative Roll (2d10) + 1/5 of Agility/Quickness modifier.
Highest initiative acts first. You can hold your action and respond to someone with a lower initiative.
INITIATIVE MODIFIERS
Fast Action +2 initiative (-20 to one action)
Normal Action +0 (no mods)
Slow Action -2 Intitiative (+10 to one action)
Using two weapons -1
Using a two-handed weapon -2
Shields: wall shield -4, normal shield -2
I am especially interested in how GMs run movement during the combat round. I have seen systems that require all movement actions to be resolved first and then combat actions - this means none attacks until everyone has moved or had the opportunity to move on their initiative. The goal imo should always be to keep the action flowing and not over complicate combat where you dont need to. In practice though, moving combatants with multiple options and changing variables can make for a slow battle with too much down time trying to resolve individual players actions.
MisterK:
I've tried
- the phased combat (original RM rules)
- the initiative + declaration and action % rules of RMSS
- the ranked initiative (roll d100 + combat awareness and modifiers, action in decreasing order
and none have really satisfied me.
Next in the pipeline are two options
- remove rounds entirely and use APs (continuous action), or
- abstract manoeuvering system similar to that of the first edition of Agôn (2nd edition is a bit too much for my tastes):
* battlefield is an abstract ladder board (typically 8 steps). Initial positioning depends on visibility conditions (better visibility = opponents start farther away)
* everyone rolls manoeuvering. Movement goes from lowest to highest result [+ tie breakers]
* a protagonist can move either themselves or anyone who rolled lower than they did. You can move one step (forward or back) or decide to stay where you are.
* when everyone has moved, attacks occur and are simultaneous - if they can occur at all. All weapons have a preferred range, and can also hit at slightly longer or shorter range (+/-1, or +/-2 steps) with negative modifier.
It would require a bit of tweaking (it was originally designed for thematic heroic bronze age combat without magic), but the main aspects are
- relative positioning is abstract - what each protagonist does is trying to get a positional advantage.
- manoeuvering is at least as important - and potentially more important - than actual combat prowess, especially if you can lock a powerful opponent out of their combat range.
- actual resolution is simultaneous - initiative is not about who strikes first, but about who gets the positional advantage.
I guess you can add some variety to that by introducing environmental factors (obstacles, cover...) and ruling that activating a factor counts as manoeuvering. You can also try and tweak it by increasing the number of steps in the board and giving two manoeuvering actions for each protagonist (action = move one step, move someone else of lower result one step, or trigger an environmental factor) to add options. To be playtested, obviously - the beauty of the original system is its simplicity and balance, and adding options messes with those aspects.
Druss_the_Legend:
--- Quote from: MisterK on July 02, 2022, 12:31:42 AM ---I've tried
- the phased combat (original RM rules)
- the initiative + declaration and action % rules of RMSS
- the ranked initiative (roll d100 + combat awareness and modifiers, action in decreasing order
and none have really satisfied me.
Next in the pipeline are two options
- remove rounds entirely and use APs (continuous action), or
- abstract manoeuvering system similar to that of the first edition of Agôn (2nd edition is a bit too much for my tastes):
* battlefield is an abstract ladder board (typically 8 steps). Initial positioning depends on visibility conditions (better visibility = opponents start farther away)
* everyone rolls manoeuvering. Movement goes from lowest to highest result [+ tie breakers]
* a protagonist can move either themselves or anyone who rolled lower than they did. You can move one step (forward or back) or decide to stay where you are.
* when everyone has moved, attacks occur and are simultaneous - if they can occur at all. All weapons have a preferred range, and can also hit at slightly longer or shorter range (+/-1, or +/-2 steps) with negative modifier.
It would require a bit of tweaking (it was originally designed for thematic heroic bronze age combat without magic), but the main aspects are
- relative positioning is abstract - what each protagonist does is trying to get a positional advantage.
- manoeuvering is at least as important - and potentially more important - than actual combat prowess, especially if you can lock a powerful opponent out of their combat range.
- actual resolution is simultaneous - initiative is not about who strikes first, but about who gets the positional advantage.
I guess you can add some variety to that by introducing environmental factors (obstacles, cover...) and ruling that activating a factor counts as manoeuvering. You can also try and tweak it by increasing the number of steps in the board and giving two manoeuvering actions for each protagonist (action = move one step, move someone else of lower result one step, or trigger an environmental factor) to add options. To be playtested, obviously - the beauty of the original system is its simplicity and balance, and adding options messes with those aspects.
--- End quote ---
very interesting ideas here. it amazes me how varied each campaigns rules are.
Im all for a system that smooths out combat resolution. im still searching for a system that does that. I play a fair bit of D&D as a player and the DM of that game uses some of our rolemaster rules in his game eg. his own modified crit tables and fumble table. im green with envy at how fast combat in D&D is compared to combat in rolemaster.
I have developed my own hybrid system for combat. it works well enough but combat can still grind to a halt with all the number crunching required eg. parry mods that change between rounds, opponents that change within a round, movement actions and skill resolution during a combat round, variable combat mods for flanks/positional changes during combat etc etc.
Im considering using narrative combat blended with dice rolls. Something like this...
:) PHASE ONE: (Start) 2-3 rounds of combat to set the stage, then
:) PHASE TWO: (Middle) each side rolls a d20 to see how the next phase of the battle unfolds (this dice roll is modified by +1 for each advantage your side has gained in phase one such as superior positioning/tactics/leadership/greater numbers/superior weapons/greater average level. Note. if one side outnumbers the other 2:1 they get to roll with advantage (3:1 = double advantage etc)
:) PHASE THREE: (End)
based on the roll from phase two the battle reaches its final resolution.
Compare the two d20 rolls
* >>Difference 0-5, Too close to call - play out another 2 combat rounds and give the PCs a chance to rally/motivate/use inspiring leadership to gain the upper hand
>>Difference of 6-10, A Clear winner and loser is imminent, morale checks must be made for NPCs on the 'losing side' and these checks have disadvantage. NPCs who fail their morale check surrender
>>Difference of 11-15, Losing side surrenders/auto fail morale (NPCs drop their weapons and give up fighting). PCs on the losing side are cornered/surrounded/lose ground and are outclassed/overwhelmed by the other side
>>Difference of 16+, Rout, losing side makes RR vs fear or runs for it if escape is possible (otherwise treat result as surrender/auto fail morale).
Spectre771:
We only play RM2 and we use a very simple system.
1) Declare parry, spell prep, or adrenal prep (or use)
2) D100 OE and/or OED + QU bonus
3a) Highest Initiative goes first and can delay initiative until later in the round
3b) Tied initiatives - higher QU bonus goes first
3c) If still tied - actions are resolved at the same time
Rask Tril:
Everybody rolls initiative and then our GM (me) rolls a d6 to determine how many rounds will be completed before another initiative roll is needed. This has allowed a bit of unpredictability. No problems.
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