Topic: Commoner Spellusers

[egdcltd]

So, given the spell lists around, what is the likelihood that the average person knows at least one spell, and are any of the low-level spells actually useful on a regular basis for the typical farmer/worker/craftsman? Or would there be anything like a zeroth-level spell? Like the old AD&D cantrips? (Don't know what those were replaced with in edition 3 upwards, but by something I think)

[yammahoper]

RM2 Spell Users Companion (SUC) had a bunch of Prosaic Spell List that, in my game, had no minimum stat requirement to learn (I assume the 90 stat prof requirement by default indicates a 90 stat is required to learn magic of a specific realm).  The spell list have very useful but rather mundane spells.  One list for example allows the fixing and mending of broken goods, others apply to crafts or cleaning.  They are useful and excellent secret lore for guilds and merchant families.

I charge 1/1/1 for dev cost, all professions.

[Terry K. Amthor]

So, given the spell lists around, what is the likelihood that the average person knows at least one spell, and are any of the low-level spells actually useful on a regular basis for the typical farmer/worker/craftsman? Or would there be anything like a zeroth-level spell? Like the old AD&D cantrips? (Don't know what those were replaced with in edition 3 upwards, but by something I think)

After having done the page layout for the recent HARP revisions, I encountered their list of cantrips in College of Magic, which follow along the same lines: useful, minor spells. I could certainly see those kinds of spells being applicable in a magic-infused world like Kulthea.

[egdcltd]

RM2 Spell Users Companion (SUC) had a bunch of Prosaic Spell List that, in my game, had no minimum stat requirement to learn (I assume the 90 stat prof requirement by default indicates a 90 stat is required to learn magic of a specific realm).  The spell list have very useful but rather mundane spells.  One list for example allows the fixing and mending of broken goods, others apply to crafts or cleaning.  They are useful and excellent secret lore for guilds and merchant families.

I charge 1/1/1 for dev cost, all professions.

Turns out I have that - I hadn't realised. In one of the other Companions are some specific Guild spell lists, and some other Prosaic ones were referenced in SUC.

I recently read A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe Second Edition. It's aimed at d20, so the references were based on that, but even knowing a few simple cantrips could make quite a big difference to society in general, let alone what some slightly higher spells could do, such as anything that grows plants quickly for a farmer.

I think it's going to be difficult to re-release many of the old Companions though, given the sheer number of people who contributed to them.

A new one covering basic, everyday and common magic would be interesting (for me, anyway), discussing secret guild magics, everyday spells and who would possess them and the effect they would have.

After having done the page layout for the recent HARP revisions, I encountered their list of cantrips in College of Magic, which follow along the same lines: useful, minor spells. I could certainly see those kinds of spells being applicable in a magic-infused world like Kulthea.

I don't have HARP, but that could be an interesting accompaniment.

[RandalThor]

I think you have to look at it like this:

1) Is magic usable by anyone/everyone, or can only a small select few have the "gene" to us it? If the former, then go to #2. If the latter, then you have effectively kept magic from being used by the vast majority of the population, so you probably don't have to do any changing.

2) Are exceptionally high attributes (like 90+) needed to learn/use magic? If not, then go to #3. If so, then like #1 above, magic will still be rare and only those non-spellcasters who have the appropriate exceptional attribute(s) will be able to learn, but they still may not be allowed to learn.

3) Treat magic more like technology. As technology is used in our world, but just about everyone to one degree or another and pretty-much every profession (farmer, miller, thatcher, butcher, jeweler, blacksmith, etc...) will have their own specific magics they use to perform their craft. This is getting into Earthdawn territory so you could look to that for some inspiration, though Harry Turtledove's fantasy world war series could also be a great source of material.

Personally, I am of the opinion that for RM (any edition) non-spellcasters - including NPC peons - would learn 2-5 spells through their life. It does wonders for making a non-spellcaster viable at higher levels.

[Terry K. Amthor]

I'm wondering if this might be better discussed in the Rolemaster thread (not that I haven't enjoyed it), because it is more system-related. While I have tinkered with specific SW spell lists, this is something that deserves attention in the bigger RM picture (if it does not already have it; I think the idea of minor spells like this is worthy of talk in RM). Thoughts? Moderators?

[egdcltd]

Yes, I originally posted in this forum because I was thinking of Shadow World specifically, as a high magic world.

@RandalThor I think in a high magic setting there will be a lot of commonplace magic kicking about. A high level spell user could completely trash a traditional city by themselves if there aren't sufficient low-level magics to oppose them, working on the assumption that many small = one big. I've only read the first book in that Harry Turtledove series; I should get the rest and read them at some point. So many books, so little time.

I had a look through the companions and found the following:

Prosaic magics, as mentioned by yammahoper, in the SUC.

Professional guild spell lists in RCV.

Professional and Guild lists, and the Crafter, Delver, Engineer and Tinker classes in Alchemy Companion.

I did start making some notes as to the sort of things you might find in a couple of professions that hadn't been already covered.

[Marrethiel]

So, given the spell lists around, what is the likelihood that the average person knows at least one spell, and are any of the low-level spells actually useful on a regular basis for the typical farmer/worker/craftsman? Or would there be anything like a zeroth-level spell? Like the old AD&D cantrips? (Don't know what those were replaced with in edition 3 upwards, but by something I think)

If you are using RoCo I then it is precisely 3%... six back ground options and a roll on arms or magic talents. 1 in 200 gets you spells to 50th level... quite scary really. You can then easily buy a +1 adder with back ground options too.

[egdcltd]

If you are using RoCo I then it is precisely 3%... six back ground options and a roll on arms or magic talents. 1 in 200 gets you spells to 50th level... quite scary really. You can then easily buy a +1 adder with back ground options too.

With those sorts of numbers I would definitely expect to see a lot of low-level "cantrip" type spells available, probably ones that would be useful on a daily basis but that wouldn't have, individually, any earth-shattering effects but that would probably have a noticeable cumulative effect from a percentage of the population using them regularly.