Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: dutch206 on January 11, 2008, 06:20:46 PM
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When last we left the beleaguered guild council of Kaitaine, they were told that Kaitaine had to join "the Alliance" before the end of 6053, or they would be considered an enemy of the state. That was 27 days before the end of 6053.
The timeline for SW is now well into 6054 and no mention was ever made of what got decided. Did Kaitaine cave in under pressure, or did the Loremasters find a way to come to their assistance? ???
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Good question!
Kaitaine, vulnerable after the damage wreaked by the fires, and lured by offers of funds for rebuilding, agrees to become an Alliance member, because the Loremasters have little of substance to offer. Komaren and Itanis are concerned as they see Alliance ships in the harbor, and many more Alliance troops in the previously independant city-state.
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I am assuming this is TKA using his "official ruling" voice. ;D
Thanks for the info. Now to decide on the mood of my campaign: Evil Empire or benevolent trade network? (I don't necessarily see the Alliance as being a bad thing.)
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Well, it seems to me that the Alliance gets too much control in everything that was first agreed.
I don't think of them as something good... after all, someone (problably K'ta'viiris) decided to capture them and close them in that special jail.
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I am assuming this is TKA using his "official ruling" voice. ;D
Thanks for the info. Now to decide on the mood of my campaign: Evil Empire or benevolent trade network? (I don't necessarily see the Alliance as being a bad thing.)
You do know that the Alliance is led by powerful mind-beings that destroy the host's mind in order to take over their bodies? That is not beneficial in my book, and about as evil as one could get.
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Defininetely is a bad thing losing your mind ;D , but not sure if that is evil, as an Arnak Priest can be.
They have not other way to live, it's like a parasite , he needs that mind to live. Maybe while in possesion of a body he wants no damage to others. But his actions are very near of the dark elves dyaris.... Maybe they are affected by the host ???
Don't think so. I believe their true motiviations are power hungry, but maybe they are not completely evil.
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No, they may not be evil per se, but they are definately bad - coming from a resident of Kulthea point of view. I would call something bad if it possessed my friend Jay's mind and in so doing destroyed his. Power hungry is bad also. It denotes wanting power for powers sake, no moral/just reason, just wants power. Bad doggie. No treat.
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Heh, as for my "official ruling" voice, well, you wanted something to advance Kaitaine in the timeline (Vroomfogle are you reading?) but of course do as you please.
As for the bdiless creatures, you make them sound like the Stargate Goua'ould (sp?) But I assure you they were not based on them. Though they were inspired by something else. They are not really 'evil' as such, but they do require a host 'mother' to create a new body... Their mindset is quite alien however.
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I am most certainly am reading. Do you have a more exact date for that?
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(Vroom, IIRC, the deadline for the decision of Kaitaine was the last day of 6053 TEI.)
The leaders of the Alliance may be mental parasites, but look at the evidence. Are they abusing or exploiting their citizens? The influx of financial aid and soldiers is likely to save the city of Kaitaine from oblivion.
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(Vroom, IIRC, the deadline for the decision of Kaitaine was the last day of 6053 TEI.)
The leaders of the Alliance may be mental parasites, but look at the evidence. Are they abusing or exploiting their citizens? The influx of financial aid and soldiers is likely to save the city of Kaitaine from oblivion.
Well, i haven't read that anywhere, only some The guilds begins to rebuild the city undaunted, but not direct relation with the Alliance. And they don't accept a "No thank you" for answer...
And Terry, sure they make a new baby, a new life form totally for them, like a Father, but meanwhile they took absolut control of the mother, so it's at least disgusting for human point of view :-P ...
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They're parasitic; i.e. require a host.
And in this case (unlike many parasites*), they essentially kill the host, which is quite problematic for the host.
DonMoody
* Yes, many parasites weaken the host and the host's lifespan is often shortened because of complications of this 'weakening'.
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They're parasitic; i.e. require a host.
And in this case (unlike many parasites*), they essentially kill the host, which is quite problematic for the host.
DonMoody
* Yes, many parasites weaken the host and the host's lifespan is often shortened because of complications of this 'weakening'.
Many parasites keep thier host alive because they will perish without a host. In nature thier are quite a few parasites that have benifical properties that they provide to the host so they are not all bad. Some are but quite a few are not.
But then again this is your world do what you want to with it. Give them the ability to suck people dry of mana, and then teleport up to 100' from thier next meal. Also the residue they leave behind in the person prevents them from holding mana for 1-7 day in fact specific groups harvist the residue that can be made into a potent poison that has the same effect if it enters the blood stream in large does's. [I have been RPGing for the last 2 days and my mind is in that paranoid state after experiencing too many GM traps.]
MDC
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The leaders of the Alliance may be mental parasites, but look at the evidence. Are they abusing or exploiting their citizens? The influx of financial aid and soldiers is likely to save the city of Kaitaine from oblivion.
And the Nazi's cut crime down to - all except the crimes they did. The Thalan DESTROY the mind of thier host....DESTROY it!!! That cannot be thought of as a good thing! Not even a sort of not-so-bad thing. I don't care that they have an ordered society and what not - they are bad guys. Period.
Let Kaitaine fall into the sea.....better than having your mind destroyed, your sisters mind destroyed, your father, mother, childs minds destroyed! DESTROYED!
If you hate orcs and such for raiding and killing - you have to hate these guys to. The person is just as dead - no matter that their corpse is walking around with something else in it.
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The leaders of the Alliance may be mental parasites, but look at the evidence. Are they abusing or exploiting their citizens? The influx of financial aid and soldiers is likely to save the city of Kaitaine from oblivion.
And the Nazi's cut crime down to - all except the crimes they did. The Thalan DESTROY the mind of thier host....DESTROY it!!! That cannot be thought of as a good thing! Not even a sort of not-so-bad thing. I don't care that they have an ordered society and what not - they are bad guys. Period.
Let Kaitaine fall into the sea.....better than having your mind destroyed, your sisters mind destroyed, your father, mother, childs minds destroyed! DESTROYED!
If you hate orcs and such for raiding and killing - you have to hate these guys to. The person is just as dead - no matter that their corpse is walking around with something else in it.
And that's why I hate vampires, and was not a great Vampire the Middle Ages or Masquerade GM.
lynn
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If vampirism is a demonic possession type-thing (like in Buffy) and not a viral/genetic alteration thing (like in Moonlight, I think?), then it is the same thing, so yes, BAD. You don't want it to happen to anyone and would/should fight them whenever possible.
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And the Nazi's cut crime down to - all except the crimes they did. The Thalan DESTROY the mind of thier host....DESTROY it!!! That cannot be thought of as a good thing! Not even a sort of not-so-bad thing. I don't care that they have an ordered society and what not - they are bad guys. Period.
Let Kaitaine fall into the sea.....better than having your mind destroyed, your sisters mind destroyed, your father, mother, childs minds destroyed! DESTROYED!
If you hate orcs and such for raiding and killing - you have to hate these guys to. The person is just as dead - no matter that their corpse is walking around with something else in it.
Well, "Destroy" is such a indelicate word... let's say that we... ehm they change the mind of their "host" (another not very pleasant word, I would say "friend")! Actually, someone could even see this change as an improvement, a new wonderful way to see the world!
;) ;D
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I can't agree with the position of some of you regarding evil thalan, I understand that they don't destroy the mind of the host. IMHO, they are pure mental energy that can interact with a woman to get her pregnant and be their own father.
I would think more than they are jealous of the people with body and they want one, maybe they pay a price leaving the bodiless existence so they can be killed.
In the timeline of the Atlas, near the end I read:
Agyra: One of the Inner Circle of the Alliance is assassinated by a prist of the Silver Dawn.
Although it's not clear if it's one of the Brotherhood or maybe a high rank Jenaar, I find more interesting that the thalan pays the price of the true inmortality to be "real", that turns them into a less pure evil being but more human.
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I could care less WHAT causes vampirism. It is the fact that ALL VAMPIRES FEED ON HUMANITY that paint a big "must destroy" sign on them ;)
lynn
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Semantics.
Word it however you like, the Alliance takes over people.
From the PoV of 'the ones that get taken over', it is not a good thing.
DonMoody
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Don't think so Fac. In the text about Thalans by Andraax says that they are truly inmortal and can't be killed truly; you can only kill the body. But with time they will look for another "Host".
It seems to me , that the only way to stop them is in this special chamber with the special orbs where the Dyari founded the 13 Thalans..
OTOH I can't say of they are evil in the sense that like torture or being cruel
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From the Atlas:
Thalan: Non-corporeal; Mentalists. Lifespan: immortal.
A strange race which may not even be native to Kulthea, the Thalan are a people who are not exactly immortal, yet their souls remain in the universe of mortals forever. A scroll in the Library of Nomikos, a transcription of a recounding by the Loremaster Andraax, describes some of their peculiar aspects. In fact the Thalan are alien beings who came to Kulthea long ago. They cannot live outside of a body, though that body can be either a living being or a specially prepared inanimate ‘vessel.’ In this way they act as a sort of symbiont and the being is a host.
Thalan are able to transfer from one body to another, but they prefer to possess a child in the womb; in this way they can actually alter the child physically to better conform to their needs. The ‘host’ psyche is also more easily repressed and kept permanently passive.
The Thalan retains all of its Mentalist powers as it switches from body to body. The only way to kill a Thalan is to kill the host in a situation where it cannot flee to another host or a magical vessel.
It needs to be within about ten feet of either to switch. It is almost impossible to detect the symbiont in a host if the Thalan does not wish it; however it is able to create an aura around the body and make the eyes appear to ‘glow’ if it desires to impress or frighten lesser beings.
For me, it seems that Thalan can be good or bad, the ones with the Alliance seems that are making a social experiment than any other thing.
And also it's clear that they don't destroy the mind of the host but repress it while the host is possesed, and looking at their children (we can discuss about ethics here) it's more like a clone that is not allowed to develop his own mind.
In Jaiman I remember the Loremaster Hernae that was also a Thalan and not a bad guy.
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I could care less WHAT causes vampirism. It is the fact that ALL VAMPIRES FEED ON HUMANITY that paint a big "must destroy" sign on them
That is, if you are not one of them ;D
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:book2: You are right FAC and i was wrong... now i understand what you have said about the danger of dying.
Really interesting... so if the Inner Circle are only the Thalan, now they are twelve...
We don't know also if Hernae is one of them , or is another Thalan form differente place.
Coming back to the subject , it is not clear what Kaitaine have decided regard the Alliance proporsal.
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Coming back to the subject , it is not clear what Kaitaine have decided regard the Alliance proposal.
I thought this pretty definitively covered that:
Kaitaine, vulnerable after the damage wreaked by the fires, and lured by offers of funds for rebuilding, agrees to become an Alliance member, because the Loremasters have little of substance to offer. Komaren and Itanis are concerned as they see Alliance ships in the harbor, and many more Alliance troops in the previously independent city-state.
DonMoody
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ooouch!! 2/2
I will have to end reading the forum meanwhile at work.....
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Well, I was sure I read somewhere that the Thalans destroyed the minds of their victims. Maybe it was from one of the novels. Even though supressing the mind is not nearly as bad as destroying it, it still is not good. But for a being that has too, well they have to. I would still fight them unless they showed unequivocally that the system they are putting together is of great benefit to the common person - and I do not think that capitalism is necessarily a good thing. Still, better than some others.
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Would it be better if the Thalans PAID their "Host" for the controll time they "borrowed"?
You know, "Host" goes to sleep one night and wakes up 2 yrs latter with big bag of coins and gems. Just a fue streach marks......
Kinda like renting at a brothel. ;D
In fact, could'nt they set it up before hand with a willing "host" and then for security just pay at end and mind wipe the "host" ?
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I've always played the Thalan as "Stargate" Goa'ould. (ie psychic parasites)
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Anyway you slice it, it is just 'wrong'.
DonMoody
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No really. We're not evil, just misunderstood. ;D
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After all, is'nt that what livestock are for?
You care for them, plan for them, provide for them, and then they dont want to pay anything back. Even just one or two of them.
SO UNGRATEFUL......... :whip: