Topic: Who benefits from magic items?

[Marc R]

I've done all the above and worse, but at this point, I'd only allow that kind of fun-n-games in a very high end magic game. . .I can't recall anyone suggesting a skill like "Weapon Mastery" which allows you to double concussion hits, attack two targets at the same time, or anything of the like with weapons. . .even the styles in the MAC and the CC don't offer combat flexability on anything like the scale that unfettered SM offers. . .and I never thought core RM (any version) was biased so much in favor of Arms that the poor spellcasters needed a nice elastic corner of "Bend/break rules here".

Stack Tumbling, Swashbuckling, a Weapon Style allowing 2 Weapon attack + defence and Adrenal Strenght, and you've got a potentially more potent combination often capable of being used with multiple weapons, whereas spell mastery has to be developped independently for each list.  Not to mention that fighters can benefit from Weapons that do triple concussions and add a critical and allows you to defend yourself at full BO while you're stunned NP, whereas spell users don't benefit much from similar effect.  An item that constantly doubles the area effect of your spells is much tougher to enchant than a weapon that doubles your concussion damage and adds a crit at the same time.  A fighter can benefit from Haste and Two-Weapon fighting, potentially making 4 attacks at full BO in a round, a spell user can only cast a single spell in a round, no matter if its an instantaneous one.

A semi-spell user or a pure arms has as much capacity to be increasingly nasty at high levels as a pure spell user or hybrid has.

Unless a gameworld is very arms item specific, I tend to find that on balance, the trinkets, wands, rings and staves tend to flow the casters' way also.

My comment about "Only allow that in a very high magic game" would apply to weapons that do x3 hits and allow you to defend at full OB while NP also. . .I haven't run or played in a game that high end in a long time, though they are fun. . . .

But either way, it's not like handily available magical items wouldn't jack the casters at least as much as the arms users. Tossing one of those +30 broadswords of defending x3 damage into a mage's hands would probably do them more overall power jack than the fighter BTW, since the OB and damage bonus are harder for a mage to get a hold of normally. (It's funny how often I see casters going for items to cover their arms weakness, while arms characters covet spell items to let them get a foot in the casting door.)

[markc]

 IMO it is a bit of a toss up on who magic items benifit more. IMO one of the items that can throw a game off is the weapon enchanted so a spell caster can use his directed spell OB as the weapon OB. A mage blade I think it is called and the are rules for it in Fire and Ice as well as soem RM2 companion and maybe the RM2 Alch Comp. But even then a mage blade can be more of a balancing factor if the spell caster has trouble getting PP back because of some game world mechanic.

MDC

[Dark Schneider]

But those elemental blades are spells, not items, so I see usual that you use the directed spell for it.

It is true that magical items are very oriented to combat, in TC we see many effects for spells to create weapons and armors, and few for other magical effects. Special section for 'weapon #' and 'armor #' spells but not for 'general #' spells.

It would be great to define new effects that help spell users to manage easier their troubles.

[Dark Schneider]

For example, the PP addition is clearly for non-spell users, the quantity is poor, I suppose that for spell users spell adders is used instead.

The bonus for SCSM is very poor, so it doesn't reward for time and/or cost of the item (+2, +4, +6...), personally I would change it to +5s instead +2s.

I'd change too the category bonus (continue reading) to +5s, so if you create an item that bonus 'throw weapons' it is more usual than create an item that bonus an specific 'throw weapon', but bonus based on +2s is poor. But THIS ONLY for categories that are type '1 skill per...' like weapons, directed spells, etc., in categories that are different skills use the +2s, because those skills can be very different in the same category. So, the conclusion is that you use them like a skill, not a category, because they are really variants of the same skill, but are not really different skills.

But, how about bonus to BAR (many users want it!), increase the casting level (so you can cast spells greater lvl than yourself with no SCSM and with more duration, etc.), store capacity (like magical staff), etc.?. Nowadays we only can imbedding spells that user doesn't have (or can't have) to expand its casting skills.

[Grinnen Baeritt]

Since this is effectively a continuation of the Spell Mastery "problem".

If PP multipliers are a problem then why not make THEM specific to effecting certain kinds of spell effects?

Like a Multiplier that simply allows X2 Range, or one that does x2 damage. You then give it a number of charges like a daily Item? (The number of charges used = level of the spell), this broadens the range of what can be done with the item, but makes it easier to adjust the characters overall power levels.

[Marc R]

Some of this is RM2/RMFRP distortion, but a perusal of CT shows a lot of items that either modify ESF, or have that scary text "ignore spell failures".

And there are items in there that allow the caster to cast at a higher level or range.

There are plenty of items that modify fumble also. . .

[mocking bird]

Since this is effectively a continuation of the Spell Mastery "problem".

If PP multipliers are a problem then why not make THEM specific to effecting certain kinds of spell effects?

Like a Multiplier that simply allows X2 Range, or one that does x2 damage. You then give it a number of charges like a daily Item? (The number of charges used = level of the spell), this broadens the range of what can be done with the item, but makes it easier to adjust the characters overall power levels.

That seems like two degrees of separation since you are limiting the multiplier by limiting its use in a skill used to cast the spell.  Keying multipliers, and limiting them seems more productive.  Or perhaps requiring them to be customized to a caster beyond a simple attunement.

[Dark Schneider]

Or perhaps requiring them to be customized to a caster beyond a simple attunement.

Hey, that give us a good idea about limit the multipliers, instead customize them, we could require an attunement roll, with difficulty based on type, every time you use one. So more powerfull is the multiplier, more powerfull (or wise) needs to be the user, and not always can be used (skill failure by low-ended rolls, 5% of failure as minimum).

[jeff]

Grinnen Baeritt

I really like the idea. I think I might start doing that.

[Balhirath]

There's also the option of using Alignment Reactors in the Items.
Basically that means that a good person cannot use an evil weapon and vise versa.
I use it regulary, because it makes sense that Alchemists would ensure that their powerfull weapons/Items cannot be used against them by 'the ememy'... and I dont have to worry about giving my evil NPC's magical items.

[jolt]

There's also the option of using Alignment Reactors in the Items.
Basically that means that a good person cannot use an evil weapon and vise versa.
I use it regulary, because it makes sense that Alchemists would ensure that their powerfull weapons/Items cannot be used against them by 'the ememy'... and I dont have to worry about giving my evil NPC's magical items.

I used the same idea when I was running Pendragon.  To fully use some items, a certain personality score had to be so high (e.g. Chaste had to be 16+ to use the abilities of the sword and if Lust was 16+ you couldn't even touch it).

jolt

[Marc R]

The AC and TC had "Alignment Reactor" and also "Usable by Realm" and "Usable by Profession" and "Usable by Race"

Like the Dwarven weapons in CT, or the PP multipliers that only work for mentalism, or the staff that only works for Sorcerers, or the various light and dark weapons.

And then the standby item annoyance. . . .intelligence and will.