Topic: Simplified XP system?

[Witchking20k]

I have award XP myself as the GM based on the plan I have.  The session to session XP is awarded by players to each other.  This is roleplaying bonus between 100-500 XP/session.

If a player cannot attend their characters still get the base XP but not the additional stuff awarded by peers.

[Arioch]

It's nearly identical. The only difference is that RME doesn't make a distinction between Personal and Party goal, they just have Major/Minor Goals. Also, RME's points are higher by 5x the amount (I'm guessing because the levels between RME and HARP vary by that much). Otherwise, the system is identical.

-shnar

5xHARP xp amount... ok, thanks for the info!

[Ecthelion]

IMHO only the way the RME XP systems works is more or less identical to the HARP XP rules. The amount of XPs handed out by the RME XP system is, when translating the XP numbers to fractions of levels, far lower than with the HARP system. In effect it might take a character about five times as many sessions to advance a level than with the HARP rules and a HARP character.

See the thread XP Rules -> slow level progression? for an example.

[Ecthelion]

5xHARP xp amount... ok, thanks for the info!

Please note that a HARP character reaches level 2 after gaining 350 XPs, while a RM character needs 10000 XPs. IMHO the factor of x5 is therefore not enough to reach a similar level advancement as in HARP. If you intend a similar level advancement the factor should rather be x30! If a HARP level is "worth" less than a RM level, then the factor should be a bit lower than x30.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

I meant, the RM-conversion. Just to see if it is similar to the one I made...

Here is a draft version (I cannot recall how closely this matches the final released version of this).



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[markc]

I do levels by 1/3rds and just tell them when to level.
MDC

[Arioch]

I meant, the RM-conversion. Just to see if it is similar to the one I made...

Here is a draft version (I cannot recall how closely this matches the final released version of this).

Thanks! 
Actually it's a bit different from the one I made

[Dax]

I also hand out DP every session rather than experience points. I've also made levels a flat 100 DP regardless of attritbutes to keep players from whoring stats only for DP, and got rid of the second cost for raising skills, keeping only the first one and made it possible to buy more ranks per level as long as ranks don't go above a certain maximum which is derived from level.

I like this, Temujin. Very simple and intuitive compared to the original XP system.

This way our SpaceMaster GM rewarded us.
To give just DP every session and told the players "Now you are at a new lvl" is ingenious.
It never came to me, because I go a complex, bookkepping way.

Every time you used a skill, you rolled with some mods, and if you succeeded (i.e. 100+) you advanced the skill 1 *point* (not one rank). You were limited to the number of times you could try this roll (I think it was once a week per skill for static, unless in combat, then once per combat session). Body Development advanced the same way.

This is also very interesting. That exactly what I meant when I was referring to Call of Cthulhu. I you use it again, do share, please!

(+1 to skill bonus) would be more like H?rnmaster.
RuneQuest (2) use to improve 1d6+1, i think it is the same for Cthulhu.

RQ inspired me to build such a system of my own:
But you need more than one use of the skill to get an improvement check (or what it is called).
This was due to the munchkin behavior I encountered with devoted RQ-gamers:
"Now I fight with my <3rd best weapon> to get an improvement check." 

[Justin]

I mentioned this in another thread. I played a *long* time ago (almost 20 years now) with a system the GM customized for lvl development. Every time you used a skill, you rolled with some mods, and if you succeeded (i.e. 100+) you advanced the skill 1 *point* (not one rank). You were limited to the number of times you could try this roll (I think it was once a week per skill for static, unless in combat, then once per combat session). Body Development advanced the same way. If you took damage in combat or at any time (i.e. used the bodydev skill), then at the end of the combat session, you would roll to see if it advanced.

Without looking at the exact math, this is basically how The ElderScrolls games work. (Which does not predate RM.)

[Burkin]

Every time you used a skill, you rolled with some mods, and if you succeeded (i.e. 100+) you advanced the skill 1 *point* (not one rank). You were limited to the number of times you could try this roll (I think it was once a week per skill for static, unless in combat, then once per combat session). Body Development advanced the same way.

I have thought something between this and dp handed out at the GMs discretion would be cool.
Based on both skills used and a characters actions, GM doles out, for lack of a better term I'll call them skill points in the appropriate skills.  I don't think a chart or roll is necessary, just GM discretion.  When you get to a certain number of skill points in the skill you go up a rank.  After an appropriate number of ranks in various skills, you go up a level.   So players would no longer choose skills to take.  If you want to improve at something, you use character downtime to practice that skill.

Admittedly there would be some problems, like characters being excessively active in order to improve skills, but the GM could probably control this by not rewarding it.

[Lord Garth]

I dislike the idea of there not being "luck" in XP or lvl advancement. Chance does exist, which is why I, as a GM, don't like more than 50% say in XP earned per session. The rest I like to leave to good character building and combat, skills or what not EXP.

[RandalThor]

I am going to really simplify xp in my upcoming game: at the end of every third, full session they will go up a level. For in game incentives, I will be doling out Fate Points for excellent play/humor/etc.

[Setorn]

In the past, I awarded DP as well and I kept variable DP.  How I avoided PC’s with less DP raising levels fasters was at levels 1 – 10 PCs leveled at 15 DP, receiving the remainder  of their DP upon gaining the Level (i.e.: earning the 15th DP), Levels  11 -20 leveled at 20 DP and 21+ Leveled at 25 DP.

The DP were awarded for good role playing, goals and assistance to the plot.  Why certain skills increased was a function of role playing practicing or training.   

[Fornitus]

Some of this sounds like a thing I downloaded somwhere called
"Levelless RoleMaster"

Maybe I need to find that again

But I realy like the Goal Based XP version. Thanks

[Arioch]

But I realy like the Goal Based XP version. Thanks

I've been using it for a while now, and I'm very happy with it! It's fast, simple and encourages good play!

[Joshua24601]

I've been working on some ideas and I kinda came up with this one... it meshes FRP, HARP, and other ideas you fine people.


XP comes from 3 general categories (plus bonuses):

Figure out a base XP award per day
    a boring day is worth 10xp (sitting around an inn),
    a medium day is worth 50 (traveling/training),
    an exiting day 100 (combat occurs, minor goals achieved),
    and a spectacular day 250 (major goals achieved)

For combat, the GM can just tally how many kill points enemies are worth (perhaps even before the game starts, based on avarage party level, ignoring most bonuses, no crit points, no spell points, no hit points).. then after a fight, divide the points... perhaps evenly, perhaps skewed based on performance (not necessarily kills, but general usefulness, heroics, creativity... less points for hiding/doing nothing)
This should result in a much lower number then given under standard FRP rules.

Finally throw the goals in... this will be how most of the points are awarded.
Goals are similar to HARP, being described as either personal or party... and assigned a relevance (minor, major, climatic) and difficulty (easy, medium, hard, very hard...).


I haven't figured out how many points to assign goals yet, however I'd use the HARP system for a base... then decide how often I'd like the PC's to level.  If it's 'once per session' at Lvl 1 (10,000 xp), I'd examine all the party goals I expected to be achieved in an average session and ensure that they total out at around 2/3 (6,600 points per PC).. expecting kills, personal goals, and base day xp to get me up to 10k a day.




The beautiful thing about this system is that it plays down combat significantly... you get some XP from combat but not nearly as much as you get for achieving a goal... thus if a PC wants to risk their characters life they get extra XP (makes sense, combat is better experience then training, plus their risking their character), but if they avoid battle they don't suffer serious XP loss, futher seeking peaceful resolutions could be party or personal goals...  Personal goals reward players for role-playing out their characters desires, and forces them to really flesh out who their character is and what he/she wants (so the GM can help assign goals).  It can also be used to reward characters for honing their skills.  If a PC wants to be a world class swordsman, then fighting skillfully (perhaps rolling an E crit in battle) would be a goal... (and the XP earned by achieving that goal would, in theory, be going towards DP's used to upgrade those skills)

[Fidoric]

The beautiful thing about this system is that it plays down combat significantly... you get some XP from combat but not nearly as much as you get for achieving a goal... thus if a PC wants to risk their characters life they get extra XP (makes sense, combat is better experience then training, plus their risking their character), but if they avoid battle they don't suffer serious XP loss, futher seeking peaceful resolutions could be party or personal goals...

I think that there is a kind of loop in what you propose. For example, using the Harp goal system, surviving combat is a goal unto itself (staying alive !) and so give you some XP according to the difficulty of the fight.

So IMO, you don't need combat XP, just make surviving combat a goal and apply Harp rules. This way you simplify your system further.

[Joshua24601]

Fidoric,
I don't like the HARP system is that there is zero reward for combat (assuming it isn't totally necessary to achieving goals.. ie: Goal: kill this target).  So the character that never enters combat, but achieves all his goals is playing the safest, and therefore best for his character.

I think that almost all PC's spend a good percentage of their DP's on combat skills.  Part of developing those skills should be practicing them... The fighter who fights should learn the art faster then the one who totally avoids battle.  "Combat is better experience then training"... better experience = more XP.

Under HARP you could have personal goals to "get in fights" and "kill things" but rather then giving virtually every PC those goals, I just give out a fraction of RMFRP kill XP

Thx for the feedback.

[Ecthelion]

Fidoric,
I don't like the HARP system is that there is zero reward for combat (assuming it isn't totally necessary to achieving goals.. ie: Goal: kill this target).

That is not correct. Surviving a fight in itself is always a Minor Goal in HARP, with the difficulty being determined by the combat capabilities of the opponents. A combat can become a Major Goal if it is necessary for getting nearer to the adventures final goal, but that only increases the number of XPs earned. Even without this precondition you get XPs for the combat. So if e.g. the party is attacked by a random group of orcs at night and they defeat the orcs they do get XPs for this.

So the character that never enters combat, but achieves all his goals is playing the safest, and therefore best for his character.

That is true. But the character who achieves all these goals and also bravely enters some combats usually gets even more XPs...

[Joshua24601]

Cool, thx for the info Exthelion..
I haven't read any HARP books... so I've kinda formed my ideas about the goal system from reading the forum.

Which would be more streamlined?  Setting a goal and paying out XP?  Or tallying kill points?  (Again without crits, hits and all that jazz... just kill points only (using the avarage level of the party))