Author Topic: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"  (Read 1129 times)

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Offline alloowishus

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Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« on: November 23, 2022, 12:26:16 PM »
I have an idea for a new profession called Archer.

Basically skills are the same as fighter, except armor development is the same as ranger. Also, fletching costs 1/2

I also have thought of 2 new skills:

Targetting: (not sure of the stat) Cost is 3 for archers, 6 for fighters and rangers, 15 for everyone else
This skill works like ambush except for missile weapons. For every rank, the character gets +5 OB and +/-1 on crit rolls per round of targetting spent up to their maximum. For every 5 levels of the character, this bonus is doubled, i.e. up until 5th level it is +5 per round, 5 to 10th level it is +10 per round, 10th to 15th it is +15 per round etc. Example: A 4th level archer has 4 ranks and a +20 bonus in Targetting, if they spend 4 rounds aiming they get a +20 OB bonus and +/-4 to their crit roll, 2 rounds +10 and +/-2 on their crit.

Fast Load: (QU) This skill allows a character to load their non mechanical missile weapon faster. 0-10% = Light, 10-30% Medium, 30-50% Hard, 50-75 Very Hard, 75-99% Extremely Hard, 100% (i.e. two shots per round) is Absurd.  Example, an archer tries to fire a long bow 30% faster  this would be a medium maneuver. The person rolls and gets 80% on the MM, therefore they only loaded 25% faster, so their reload time would be 55%.

Offline brole

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2022, 06:23:18 PM »
There is a specialist profession called the Archer in the RM2 Arms Companion.

If you can check it out it might help you create your own version of the Archer.

I would sub categorise the Archer given in the Arms Companion into bowman (uses long bow/short bow), slinger (uses slings) and sniper (uses crossbows).

As written the Archer profession gets their special bonuses for all missile weapons.
e crits all round

Offline Hurin

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2022, 11:34:41 PM »
RMU has rules for creating professions that would allow you to do most of this according to the Rules As Written.

RMU also has a talent called Quickdraw and general rules for making quick attacks that are very similar to your Fast Load skill.

RMU also has the Sharpshooter talent that works similarly to your Targetting skill.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 02:48:59 AM »
'Subterfuge - Attack' has 'Ambush', which your idea of Targeting overshadows to a good extent. While you have to spend time to do Targeting, it's not costing anything (like a bonus to hit spell would from a caster) and it's giving a bonus both to hit and the critical in addition to being ranged.  So I'd probably skip the crit bonus and require them to develop the Ambush skill separately.

Fletching is covered under Crafts, so I'm assuming you're just reducing that particular skills cost. You might just consider making it an 'Everyman' skill if you're using this idea with the existing RM systems.

In order to differentiate more from the existing Pure Arms professions, I'd be tempted to try and create a Mentalism Semi-Spell User and create some Base Spell lists that simulate what you're trying to do.  Or, if you want to keep it more traditional (no easy access to Open/Closed lists) you could make the spell list a 'Training Package' spell list.  Aside from the more obvious combat bonuses and defenses that Base Spell lists could lead into, this would give you a more known factor in balancing some of it out and allow for things like Trick Shots.  One example of that could be a meaningful bonus to hitting static inanimate objects like a Rope (save someone being hung, drop a chandelier, cut lines on a ship, etc) or a Candle (put out the lights).

There's also lots you could do with the Talent Law book to create an archery focused Fighter or Rogue.
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Offline alloowishus

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2022, 01:57:30 PM »
Ok thanks for the feedback. I am using RMC on FGU right now, although I know there is a project to get RMU on Fantasy Grounds.

I was thinking about the fast load, and it also relates to being able to modify your initiative as well, I know there are optional rules to taking some of your OB and putting towards initiative, but having a seperate skill I think makes more sense. This could also be used for quick drawing a melee weapon or effecting your melee initiative. I like the idea of trying to go for 2 attacks per round, although this is an absurd maneuver to try. In general it should be something I can easily integrate into FGU's combat tracker.

As for targetting, maybe I will make it either an OB bonus or a crit mod, not both. I will check out arms companion too. Thanks!

Offline jdale

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2022, 02:32:45 PM »
For a really focused Arms archer, I think you need to get into fighting styles, so look at the RMC Combat Companion or RMSS Martial Arts Companion. RMU will address that when the Character Companion comes out. But in the meantime, the talents Hurin mentioned make sense. Adrenal Speed would be helpful too.

I like fast load / quick load as a talent better than a skill, just because a skill might make archery faster but rolling for it every round (or even more than once per round) is going to slow game play. Talents are more all-or-nothing, an advantage which is automatic requires less time to adjudicate.
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Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2022, 01:07:15 AM »
For a really focused Arms archer, I think you need to get into fighting styles, so look at the RMC Combat Companion or RMSS Martial Arts Companion.
That's good advise there too.  The Marital Arts Companion altered how we built Pure Arms users fairly significantly.

Ranged attacks are an interesting thing to keep balanced.  There are factors that play into it that can change group to group, like keeping track of ammo or not.

If you think about the fact that a melee combatant essentially has to focus on a target and be in range of it, while a ranged attacker can change targets every round without needing to move (unless out of range) or being in danger of a return melee attack, they have quite an advantage there.  Being able to attack less often (due to reloading) helps balance that.  Keeping track of ammo normally would too, but some GM's/Players dislike having to keep track of that.  No real opinion either way on that, but one does have to keep in mind it's one of the balancing factors.  I would lean toward tracking ammo since Spell Users pretty much have to track their 'ammo' (i.e. Power Points).
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline MisterK

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2022, 03:33:41 AM »
The Marital Arts Companion
THAT would be an interesting book ! :D

Offline MisterK

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2022, 03:39:37 AM »
Ranged attacks are an interesting thing to keep balanced.  There are factors that play into it that can change group to group, like keeping track of ammo or not.

If you think about the fact that a melee combatant essentially has to focus on a target and be in range of it, while a ranged attacker can change targets every round without needing to move (unless out of range) or being in danger of a return melee attack, they have quite an advantage there.  Being able to attack less often (due to reloading) helps balance that.  Keeping track of ammo normally would too, but some GM's/Players dislike having to keep track of that.  No real opinion either way on that, but one does have to keep in mind it's one of the balancing factors.  I would lean toward tracking ammo since Spell Users pretty much have to track their 'ammo' (i.e. Power Points).
Another useful balance mechanism is situational - namely, encounter topography. If encounters start with sides separated by a couple of hundred feet, then those who have ranged weapons will have a clear advantage since they are able to inflict wounds before melee starts. But if encounters start indoors, range is much lower, and line of sight much more of a problem with cover being plentiful. And once melee starts, the risk of hitting your allies becomes significant. Basically, if the intended target is behind a melee area, the chance of hitting an unintended target is very high unless the intended target is elevated somehow (on stairs, or on a table, or similar). It goes both ways, of course.


Offline Hurin

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2022, 10:05:44 AM »
The Marital Arts Companion
THAT would be an interesting book ! :D

The level 50 spell on the spell list, Going Along With It Because The Wife Says So is OP.
'Last of all, Húrin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed'. --J.R.R. Tolkien

'Every party needs at least one insane person.'  --Aspen of the Jade Isle

Offline EltonJ

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2022, 11:19:20 AM »
The Marital Arts Companion
THAT would be an interesting book ! :D

The level 50 spell on the spell list, Going Along With It Because The Wife Says So is OP.

The level 10 spell on that list, Yes, Dear is more OP than the rest of the list.  Imagine the fumbles!

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2022, 11:44:38 AM »
The Marital Arts Companion
THAT would be an interesting book ! :D
lol

Must be 18 or older to purchase...
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss

Offline EltonJ

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2022, 12:41:41 PM »
The Marital Arts Companion
THAT would be an interesting book ! :D
lol

Must be 18 or older to purchase...

Present wife may object to the purchase!

Offline alloowishus

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2022, 02:57:18 PM »
Ok, I went a little haywire (I was on a roll :) with some new skills, but here are some new skills I think would help out, they are kind of like spells I suppose, but without all the headache of developing spell lists. They don't use PP but the risk of failure can be quite high if you try crazy maneuvers. Here's what I came up with, this also incorporates some ideas that are floating around on Discord about being able to improve your initiative rolls.


New Skills

Note each weapon must have combat enhancement developed seperately.

Combat enhancement (MM): Speed (QU - MM Armor penalties)

This skill can used in one of 3 ways

Decrease load time for missile weapons. Load time percentage is decreased and a roll is made based on the following difficulty:
1-10% - Light
11-30% - Medium
31-50% - Hard
51-75% - Very Hard
75-99% - Extremely Hard
100% (i.e. double attack) - Absurd
The resulting percentage on the MM result is the amount of reduction that was achieved. Any failure on MM means a fumble for the weapon, and the amount of reduction /5 is added to the fumble roll.
Example: Player A is trying to load a longbow in half the time (50% reduction) , which is a hard maneuver. THey make a roll and get 75 on the MM result chart. Which means they only reduced their load time by 38%. A failure would result in a missile fumble roll with +10 added to it.
   Note: For crossbows the stats are ST/QU

Double attack for melee weapons. A player can try and attack up to twice per round, for the second attack, no parrying is allowed. The difficulty is as follows

   One handed weapons under 2’             - Hard
   One handed weapons over 2’             - Very Hard
   Two-handed non pole-arm weapon or one handed polearm - Extremely Hard
   Two handed pole-arm                - Absurd

The percentage is the percentage of attack achieved on the second attack OR they make another action which is less than the percentage. A failure results in a roll on the fumble table. Hard + 10, Very Hard + 20, Extremely hard + 30, Absurd + 50

   Example: A player tries to do a double attack with a Long sword, they roll on the MM chart under Very Hard and get 30, which means they can make a second attack at 30% of their OB OR they can do another action of 30% or less (for instance, draw another weapon).

Increase initiative for Melee weapons. A player can either add +1 per rank (if 2d10 initiative is being used) or +5 per rank (if 1d100 initiative is used) to their initiative roll. The difficulty is based on the attempted number being added to the initiative roll.
   +1-2 (5-10)       - Light
   +3-5 (15-25)       - Medium
   +5-10 (25-50)       - Hard
   +11-20 (55-100)    - Very Hard
   +21-50 (100-250)    - Extremely Hard
   +51+ (250+)       - Absurd

Failure is treated as a normal MM failure.

Eliminate drawing penalties.
   One handed weapons under 2’             - Medium
   One handed scabbard weapons over 2’          - Hard
   One handed concussion or two-handed scabbard       - Very Hard
   One handed pole-arm                - Extremely Hard
   Two handed pole-arm                - Absurd

MM result is the amount of percentage the -20 is reduced by Failure results in weapon fumble, Light - 10, Medium + 0, Hard + 10, Very Hard + 20, Extremely hard + 30.

Example: A player tries to draw their Two-handed sword extra fast, they roll on MM Hard table and get 50, so they would only reduce their penalty by 50%, so -10 instead of -20.

Combat Enhancement: Missile Targeting (no stat). A player firing a missile weapon can spend more time targeting and receive modifications to crit rolls similar to Ambush. For each round the player spends targeting they can adjust their crit roll by +/- their number of ranks developed. This increases based on the level of the character
   Lvl 1-5: +/- 1 per round
   Lvl 6-10: +/- 2 per round
   Level 10-20: +/- 4 per round
   Level 20+: +/- 6 per round
Example: A 4th level Archer has 5 ranks developed in Targeting and spends 4 rounds targeting the opponent, they would be able adjust their crit roll by +/- 4. If they were 6th level, they would only have to spend 2 rounds to adjust the same amount.

Combat Enhancement Melee Damage: (ST). A player can try and increase the damage their melee weapon does. They can multiply the damage by 1.x where x is the number of ranks developed. 10 ranks means 2.0x damage. The percentage result is the amount of extra damage they actually do (rounded down). The difficulty is as follows:

   1.1 - 1.4 - Very Hard
   1.5 - 1.9 - Extremely Hard
2.0 -       - Absurd
Failure results in fumble and a roll where the roll is modified by +5 for every point the player tries to increase their damage.
   Example: A player has 6 ranks developed in Melee Damage, they try for 1.5x damage, which is an Extremely hard MM. They get a failure and roll on the fumble table and add + 25. If they would have achieved 50 on the roll, they would have increased their damage by 1.2x

Offline EltonJ

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2022, 04:02:50 PM »
There's a spell list called Combat Enhancement in the RoCoII.  You might want to take a look at it.

Offline pantsorama

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2022, 07:25:53 PM »
The Marital Arts Companion
THAT would be an interesting book ! :D
lol

Must be 18 or older to purchase...

Unless you are Jerry Lee Lewis

Offline alloowishus

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2022, 12:09:56 PM »
There's a spell list called Combat Enhancement in the RoCoII.  You might want to take a look at it.

Yes, I have seen it, but I think there should be skills, not spell lists. A normal fighter is going to take a long time to learn a spell list but it makes more sense that they can slowly develop these skills. Also, I was thinking that you can treat Exhaustion Points like Power Points if you make these maneuvers use a lot of exhaustion. This also gives higher level fighters something else to do with their primary skills other than just increase their OB.

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Suggestion for a new profession "Archer"
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2022, 11:29:15 PM »
Also, I was thinking that you can treat Exhaustion Points like Power Points if you make these maneuvers use a lot of exhaustion. This also gives higher level fighters something else to do with their primary skills other than just increase their OB.
My own 'house' version of RM I've been playing around with uses this exact idea. We tossed exhaustion points from the get-go when we started using RM, so some of the combat mechanics I've been developing over the years treat them like spell points for Pure Arms user special attacks.
- Cory Magel

Game design priority: Fun > Balance > Realism (greater than > less than).
(Channeling Companion, RMQ 1 & 2, and various Guild Companion articles author).

"The only thing I know about adults is that they are obsolete children." - Dr Seuss