Topic: AT11 and 12

[Widukind]

How to create armor of AT 11 or 12. I didn't find anything in the Treasure Companion

[Hurin]

They are generally reserved for natural armor of certain creatures, such as dragons and wyverns. I don't think there is any way to make that armor, though certain spells or magical effects might give an effective AT 11 or 12.

[Widukind]

I have not found the cost of these animal skins. You can certainly have armor made from these skins by an alchemist (Treasure Companion) or simply buy it. But I didn't find anything about that, even the costs of such armor. Maybe you can help me/us here.

[gog]

It's the Armour type when it is on the creature, not when it has later been transformed into armour for others to wear.

[MisterK]

Actually, it should be possible to create leather armors with AT11 or 12, since some items are listed in RMSS Treasure Companion (Section 16.1.2, 11th-20th level, dragonskin armor). One is AT12 with +15 DB and encumbers as AT10, the other is AT11 with +15 DB and encumbers as AT9. There is also an AT3 dragonskin armor (shirt) that  gives +10 to DB and does not encumber at all.

Presumably, one would need alchemy to work the caveworm hide, basilisk hide, and dragonette hide to create those armors. But it can be done. I would assume that level 18 spell 'work magic leather' would provide the capability to work the hide, and armor III or armor II spells would provide the DB bonus. It is a bit difficult to know where the reduced encumbrance comes from - my guess is that it is because they are shaped as AT10 and 9 respectively (and as such have the corresponding encumbrance penalties) - the increased AT is not a function of coverage, but a function of material.

[Spectre771]

There is a notation in one of the Companions or even Ch&Ca Law that they are natural armours for animals and are included for "completeness" in the armour listing and that it is rare for humanoids to have said armour unless it is made from the hides of the animals and it is usually is a family heirloom and very difficult to obtain.  We only allow it if a player has rolled on Special Items Background options and is able to choose the item as an armour.

[jdale]

The tables assume the target's movements are largely unrestricted, as a creature in its own hide. If you make armor out of it, that generally won't be true unless there is also some magic to improve the mobility. Similarly, if you make armor out of AT 3 or 4 animal hides, it should be treated as an appropriate type of leather armor, while AT 3 and 4 are natural armor.

[rdanhenry]

It's more than just unrestricted movement, the creatures with these AT generally have protection too deep to wear. Consider real life examples with this AT: rhinoceros and elephant. Neither is noted for its nimble dodging. Rhino skin can be two inches thick in the most heavily-protected areas. No human is going to wear that. While it has weaker spots, it doesn't have the inherent weaknesses to allow joint mobility that manufactured armors do. Elephant skin is somewhat less formidable, maxing out at only one-and-a-half inches thick and without the rhino's especially tough qualities. Although seeing that hippos are less armored than elephants according to old RM stats (and not just a little AT 4 vs. 12), I'm not sure trying to argue from reality is actually worthwhile. Hippos don't have toughness-enhanced skin like rhinos, but it is at least as thick as an elephant's hide.

[Cory Magel]

IMO, basically just treat them like magic items from a power level standpoint and do what you want.
Better yet, make an adventure out of obtaining the materials and the crafting of them.

[MisterK]

IMO, basically just treat them like magic items from a power level standpoint and do what you want.
Better yet, make an adventure out of obtaining the materials and the crafting of them.

Given magical armors of AT 11 and 12 are qualified as dragonskin, I think the adventure to find at least some of the materials writes itself

[Cory Magel]

IMO, basically just treat them like magic items from a power level standpoint and do what you want.
Better yet, make an adventure out of obtaining the materials and the crafting of them.

Given magical armors of AT 11 and 12 are qualified as dragonskin, I think the adventure to find at least some of the materials writes itself

You just have to live through the adventure to make use of it!

One of the things I love about Rolemaster. Certain monsters, like Dragons, aren't pushovers like they are in other systems.

[MisterK]

You just have to live through the adventure to make use of it!

One of the things I love about Rolemaster. Certain monsters, like Dragons, aren't pushovers like they are in other systems.

Dragons seldom are pushovers in any system, unless you calibrate them to be (dragonlings).

But conversely, I had a flying dragon slain by a single dagger strike in RM. The dragon was flying in for another pass after having wrecked half the superstructure of the ship they were on, and the character long door-ed right in front of its eyes, dagger pointed the right way... and everything worked.

[Pete_Keller]

Dragons seldom are pushovers in any system, unless you calibrate them to be (dragonlings).

But conversely, I had a flying dragon slain by a single dagger strike in RM. The dragon was flying in for another pass after having wrecked half the superstructure of the ship they were on, and the character long door-ed right in front of its eyes, dagger pointed the right way... and everything worked.

We had a mid level party (5th to 10th) with 1 brand new 1st level player.  The dragon is flying in when the new player says "well, this can't hurt" and rolls a to-hit in the high 400s/low 500s the critical was arrow enters eye, pierces brain instant death.  we now have a dragon crashing on the party.