Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Shadow World => Topic started by: Terry K. Amthor on October 26, 2014, 03:12:05 AM
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Just curious about what system you all use with SW, and feel free to add comments about how SW books can be more useful!
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I have only ever been a player in Shadow World and the only book I have read is the players guide pdf.
I think it would have been cool to have small supplimental players guides at a continental level to add a bit more local history and cultural details. Not massive tomes just a few extra pages especially for new players to ground they characters.
We all have a mental picture of Middle Earth so we could imagine where our characters have come from but that isn't true of Kulthea. If you see what I mean. My first character came from Govon and that warranted at total of 48 words in the players guide including the title.
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We play using RMFRP with one group and RMC with another.
The latest guides (Xa-Ar, Emer III) have been quite complete and useful, although I reduce the number of magical items a bit, to avoid turning the party into a walking magic shop.
Despite all the detail in the Atlas and the regional books, the book that helped me most understand the different societies, economy and politics of Shadow World is the Loremaster Legacy (and all the yet unpublished chapters that were posted in the past).
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I have only been a player in one SW module and the GM used a Home Brew system. I did not vote as I did not want to skew the total.
MDC
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I can only put in what I have used in the past, as I am not currently running a game in SW.
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Our heavily-customized RMFRP/RMSS version, retaining many RM2 features.
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Just RMFRP.
I prefer regional sourcebooks rather than Atlas of entire continents. Atlas are fun to read but not really useful to make adventures. More focused modules like Xa-ar let me focus and give great details to the adventures I want to develop.
Better and more detailed regional maps would be welcome, I find that a weak point in last supplements. And I would like to point out that I like sandboxes like Bay of Izar a lot too, more stuff like that would be welcome from my part.
Regards.
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I use a heavily modded version of AD&D 2. I use it because I can create an NPC in about 5 minutes & my players can create PC's in 20 to 30 minutes. Leveling takes 5 minutes.
I've slowly added RM elements to my game over years (even to my non-SW campaigns). I don't like certain elements of RM, but i use elements that are stressed in the SW setting. Thus, for example, I use the Essence/Mentalism/Channeling realms of magic because it seems important to the flavor of the setting. My hodgepodge rules probably would be savaged by OSR D&D guys and RM fans alike.
However designing my own rules is less effort than expecting 30 to 40 year old husbands & fathers with full time jobs to learn an entire new (to them) system or apparently to expect 20 year olds to pull themselves away from social media for long enough to cease having to baby them along instead of reading the rules.
They play Shadow World because of the grand mysteries & intricate "wheels within wheels" conspiracies and plots. I run it as a sort of fantasy Babylon 5 with the doings of mad Andraax, madder Ondoval along with various cults, secret societies, and trans national corporations/organizations as focus of the campaign. It's the big picture stuff like the doings of Lorgalis and the Crown Artifacts that draws me in. I like the deep history: the fall of the K'ta'viiri, the origins of the Earthwardens & the Taranians, the Loremasters machinations, and the activities of the Nameless One. All that works for me.
I could probably run a very good campaign using BRP/Runequest because to me the setting is everything to my players it is much the same. They are the merchant princes & warlords trying to hold against the (inevitable?) triumph of the forces of darkness. I love that the darkness takes many forms & the dark gods aren't the only or even the greatest threat. Evil & good in the setting is not bipolar, but multi-polar. All of this has little enough to do with the game mechanics, but I like getting the hard mechanics of magic & tech so the rules content (which seems very light compared to D&D 3 or D&D 4) is of more value to me than might be expected. How powerful is Schrek? What can a Implementor do? What are the capabilities of Priest Arnak? What are the limits of the Navagator's compasses? All these are answered in a mechanical way that allows me to see just how (un)balancing they are so I find the ratio of "fluff" to "crunch" about right as is. I take about 3 to 4 hours of prep time to convert say the Gryphon Sword adventure in Jaiman including all magic/technological items, monsters, traps & NPC's. I am frightfully slow & thorough.
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I take about 3 to 4 hours of prep time to convert say the Gryphon Sword adventure in Jaiman including all magic/technological items, monsters, traps & NPC's. I am frightfully slow & thorough.
I am converting the other way, from a AD&D setting to RM2/RMC rules, and it takes about the same amount of time to do a proper conversion over and above reading through the adventure to get the flow. There was a discussion in the past where it was put that the you should tone down D&D encounters by a factor of 1.5 or so to make them survivable as D&D does like to throw 8-10 orcs at a low level party. I have found that the low level adventures are much tougher but the high level adventures in D&D are much easier for RM characters to defeat.
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My hodgepodge rules probably would be savaged by OSR D&D guys and RM fans alike.
I doubt you'd get that reaction from many RM users. Essentially we all really use our own versions of RM when it comes down to it. Heck, even within our own little circle of tabletop RPGer's we will use different house rules. Also... many of us came from D&D. I, for example, am part of a group that re-wrote a good 50% of D&D, using RM elements, then we just finally gave up trying to fix D&D and started using MERP/RMSS (modified of course, right from the very start).
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My house rules doc is about 8 pages long and about a third of it details where my rules vary from our other regular GMs house rules rather than variations from the written rules.
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Lots of fascinating stories!
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I used RM2 for a long time- but then switched to Hero System using a Champions 2nd edition book that I had to run a more heroic scale of game.
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I've used both RMSS and RMC/RM2, but am currently using Rolemaster Classic.
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RM2 - I've been telling ICE for 20 years I have no need of a new rule system, I wasn't fooling.
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I currently run Rolemaster 2nd/RMC. I do have RMSS in english and german but haven't had the time yet to try it out. The new german hardcover books are pure eye candy. Can't wait to start using them at the table ;D.
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We have used RM2 and RMSS, then started to play HARP and are now playing a mixture of HARP and RM2/C on it. I really like the setting although I have to admit that we are probably are now more or less playing our own version of the "future" after having played the Sea-Drake Crown campaign. There are former characters who our current adventurers have met or will meet. However, in general it is still Shadow World as you know it.
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I voted for RMFRP/RMSS as those are the two systems for which I own the rulebooks and with which I will run my upcoming SW campaign with my current 3.5 group. As a player in SW, our GM used a combination of RMC and RM2.
Still, as much as I love RM, I would love to see an official conversion to D20 for SW. However, I feel that RM and SW are intrinsically tied and some of what makes the setting's flavour unique is lost when going to a different system.
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Still, as much as I love RM, I would love to see an official conversion to D20 for SW. However, I feel that RM and SW are intrinsically tied and some of what makes the setting's flavour unique is lost when going to a different system.
There has been a D20 conversion in progress, but it stalled.
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Still, as much as I love RM, I would love to see an official conversion to D20 for SW. However, I feel that RM and SW are intrinsically tied and some of what makes the setting's flavour unique is lost when going to a different system.
For me, the only way this could work is if it uses the HARP 20-fied rules; I just can't see the basic D20 rules being at all good for SW. (OK, you got me: I don't like in general...)
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For me, the only way this could work is if it uses the HARP 20-fied rules; I just can't see the basic D20 rules being at all good for SW. (OK, you got me: I don't like in general...)
Yeah, I know there was a D20 conversion project that stalled.
I also agree basic D20 has its share of flaws and might feel out of place in SW. However, it is infinitely simpler to learn than any version of RM, and definitely easier to lure a 3.5 group with. I'm just lucky to have a group of players that have already tried the simpler MERP and are willing to learn and try the more complex RM.
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Yeah, I know there was a D20 conversion project that stalled.
I also agree basic D20 has its share of flaws and might feel out of place in SW. However, it is infinitely simpler to learn than any version of RM, and definitely easier to lure a 3.5 group with. I'm just lucky to have a group of players that have already tried the simpler MERP and are willing to learn and try the more complex RM.
I wasn't referring to any project that makes SW compatable with D20 rules, but the thing put out years ago where you use a D20 (just the die, not the rules system) for HARP, basically getting rid of the %-dice in favor of a D20. As a way to get them to convert from D20, I could totally see having the players make regular D20 characters, but you run the game using the HARP 20-fied rules. (I think it is in The Vault still.) Of course there will be some fiddling with how things are done (like creating a spellcasting skill which D20 doesn't have), but nothing too hard.
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Have been running almost a century with a RM2/MERP (German MERS) in SW.
But since i am posing as the Storyteller for a group of teens,
i have switched to a homebrew based on Ubiquity(AFO),
with elements from Burning Wheel, ArsMagicka and
World of Darkness (Sorcerer/Mage).
mfg
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I agree with those saying that the RM rules are part of the flavor of the setting especially the settings magic. Any other rule set must be able to emulate the feel of the setting. For me that means the supernatural stuff mainly. 3.x derived D&D is a bad fit for the other stuff that RM does. Low-level 3rd ed. is lethal, but (correct me if I am wrong) low level characters in RM, under the right circumstances, still have a puncher's chance against a higher level threat. This is not true in standard 3rd ed. a 10th level fighter can kill 20 or 30 1st level anythings in a few rounds & a 15th level spell caster is exponentially more powerful. However changing the d100's in RM into d20's and maybe streamlining character creation/advancement would bring in some d20 gamers.
I think a d20/ogl conversion is a little too late now. I could be wrong.
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I agree with those saying that the RM rules are part of the flavor of the setting especially the settings magic. Any other rule set must be able to emulate the feel of the setting.
Tried RM as a system to see how it works and it is very old school. The magic style is the tricky bit for a conversion along with the mentalist aspect. 3e/Pathfinder is quite a good choice as a popular system in the right genre and has the ability to cover the large power range. Magic needs some work. Recent extensions into technology cover that area.
My preferred system would be FATE but that would need a suitable magic system add-on to give the right feel. Some examples already exist that could provide inspiration.
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xenus,
welcome to the ICE Forums.
MDC
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RM2 - I've been telling ICE for 20 years I have no need of a new rule system, I wasn't fooling.
:)