Topic: armor maneuver penalties and DB

[kreider204]

OK, so this is from pages 87-88 in the core book:

o   UF MaxMP ? The maximum movement and penalty
maneuver representing restriction of movement and weight
of the unfitted armor piece. The penalty applied to all skills
with Agility or Quickness as one of the modifying stats.
o   UF MinMP ? The minimum movement and maneuver
penalty representing restriction of movement and weight
of the unfitted armor piece. The penalty applied to all skills
with Agility or Quickness as one of the modifying stats. Even
utilizing the character?s Armor Skill, a character cannot reduce
the penalties for the armor worn below this value.
o   Maximum Maneuver Penalty (MxMP) ? The penalty
representing restriction of movement and weight of the armor
worn. The character?s Armor Skill can reduce this penalty.
The Maximum Maneuver Penalty is applied to all skills
with Agility or Quickness as one of the modifying stats, and
also modifies any DB gained from the Quickness stat bo-
nus. However, this penalty cannot reduce the bonus gained
from the Quickness stat below zero.
o   Minimum Maneuver Penalty (MnMP) ? The penalty
applied to all skills with Agility or Quickness as one of the
modifying stats. Even utilizing the character?s Armor Skill, a
character cannot reduce the penalties for the armor worn
below this value.

I notice that only MxMP mentions anything about a DB modifier. 

So, my questions:

1) Does the armor maneuver penalty affect DB?
2) If so, then that would be true for all four categories above, and not just MxMP, yes?
3) If not, then is the mention of DB in MxMP a typo, or is there something else going on there?
4) In RM, there?s something about a character?s strength bonus canceling out encumbrance or armor penalties, isn?t there?  If so, is that relevant here?

Finally, I noticed this Tim quote in the unofficial HARP errata and FAQ: ?Please note that a Maneuver is anything that requires a roll (thus Armor penalties do not affect the Armor Skill since there is no roll for that skill)."

If that?s the case, then the armor penalties shouldn?t affect DB, since it?s not a maneuver / roll, isn?t that right?

Thanks again,

Evan

[John Duffield]

Here is how I play it

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. na given above answers
4. Not that I have seen for armour - the Armour skills does the cancelling

The Armour skill is not affected as it is used to negate the penalty - otherwise it gets circular   It effects DB as the weight of the armour and it's general bulkiness causes a reduction in your ability to move, duck and dodge.

Hope that helps.

[Mando]

This is a topic which would necessitate a re-write in HARP 2.0

Let's take it easy.

It should say:


The Maneuver Penalty from armor is applied to all skills MANEUVER ROLLS with Agility or Quickness as one of the modifying stats.

The Maneuver Penalty from armor does not affect basic DB gained from armor, shield or talents, as basic DB is not a maneuver. Instead, The Maneuver Penalty from armor modifies any DB gained from the Quickness stat bonus. However, this penalty cannot reduce the bonus gained from the Quickness stat below zero,

Even utilizing the character?s Armor Skill, a character cannot reduce the penalties (max/min or fitted/unfitted) for the armor worn below the value gained by the Armor Skill.


And then, describe what min, max, fitted or not penalties are


So:

1) Does the armor maneuver penalty affect DB?
Not basic DB, just the Quickness bonus.

2) If so, then that would be true for all four categories above, and not just MxMP, yes?
All penalties are treated the same way.

3) If not, then is the mention of DB in MxMP a typo, or is there something else going on there?
It's the key to understand 1, but it's not specific to MxMP, which is why we were many to fail to understand at start.

4) In RM, there?s something about a character?s strength bonus canceling out encumbrance or armor penalties, isn?t there?  If so, is that relevant here?
No.
(IMC, we use special materials (metals) for armors to achieve this. Chain and Chain-Plate of this type are very very rare and Plate is nearly unknown of.)

Errata is OK.


Hope this helps.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

The Maneuver Penalties from armor affect DB and skills (which require rolls) that use Agility or Quickness stat, plain and simple.  Look at the Quickness Bonus entry on page 85, it specifies that the Qu bonus is modified by the armor maneuver penalty (and it does not differentiate).

The "errata" note was written because somebody was asking what constituted a "maneuver" and whether or not the Armor skill was classified as such. The question did not ask about DB, so the answer given did not include anything about it either.

The "classifications" are meant only to explain the max and min penalties for fitted and unfitted armor, to give ranges of penalties for the armor -- a piece of armor will only have ONE maneuver penalty (determined by whether or not it is fitted) -- and yes it DOES need reworking when we can revise it.

Also, this is HARP, things in RM do not apply, so don't worry about what RM says. 

[kreider204]

Lovely, thanks for all the responses!