Topic: Question about Incorporeal

[Xamex]

Rules saying:

Material attacks such as sword strikes and
fists cannot hit the creature

So what about a sword strike with a spell.

Like Hammer Strike. Will this attack make double the normal concussion hits or just the normal when attacking?

Or like Elemental Weapon. Will this attack make only the extra critical?

 

[butscharoni]

Not having the books at hand and not remembering the exact wording, I would say it depends on whether the spells effect is magical.

What I mean by that is: Is a burning sword magical or is it just a sword + fire. If it is magical fire, it does damage and would count as a magical weapon as long as on fire and thus do all the damage.
Same with hammer strike. Is the double damage because the caster has super strength etc.? Then it's not magic and would deal no damage to an Incorporeal being. If the effect of double damage stems from an enchantment of the blade itself, rather then the casters skill, it would do double damage, since the weapon is now magical for the duration of the spell.

That would be my interpretation, anyways.

[Xamex]

Not having the books at hand and not remembering the exact wording, I would say it depends on whether the spells effect is magical.

What I mean by that is: Is a burning sword magical or is it just a sword + fire. If it is magical fire, it does damage and would count as a magical weapon as long as on fire and thus do all the damage.
Same with hammer strike. Is the double damage because the caster has super strength etc.? Then it's not magic and would deal no damage to an Incorporeal being. If the effect of double damage stems from an enchantment of the blade itself, rather then the casters skill, it would do double damage, since the weapon is now magical for the duration of the spell.

That would be my interpretation, anyways.

Elemental Weapon enchants temporarily. So this is is sure magical.

Hammer Strikes doubles the from the weapon. Magical.

And the spell Warrior's Might adding +5 to dertermining critical damage. So this don't have an effect.

Right!?

[butscharoni]

Well, that would be my interpretation of it at least. ;-)

[Thom @ ICE]

That would be my interpretation also - for what that's worth....

[butscharoni]

Alright. After checking Monsters again, I would alter it slightly. The text states:

Incorporeal— Material attacks such as sword strikes and fists cannot hit the creature, only magical attacks or elemental attacks can actually harm the creature. Magically enchanted weapons can hit but do criticals two sizes smaller than their normal critical type.

So, my interpretation would be about half right. Magical weapons do damage, but their crits are reduced.
So, the Hammer strike would do the double concussion damage, so a Hammer Strike Long Sword would do a tiny critical compared to the normal medium.
When using Elemental weapon, it also does a tiny crit instead of a medium one, the extra elemental crit is not affected, though, since these type of creatures is harmed by elemental attacks.

The ruling looks pretty clear to me, though depending on your campaign, you might want to alter it. To give the players more of a chance for once, but mostly to stop players waving around with torches in ghosts, which looks silly, but is, by this rules, much more effective than using a sword. ;-)

[Xamex]

Alright. After checking Monsters again, I would alter it slightly. The text states:

Incorporeal— Material attacks such as sword strikes and fists cannot hit the creature, only magical attacks or elemental attacks can actually harm the creature. Magically enchanted weapons can hit but do criticals two sizes smaller than their normal critical type.

So, my interpretation would be about half right. Magical weapons do damage, but their crits are reduced.
So, the Hammer strike would do the double concussion damage, so a Hammer Strike Long Sword would do a tiny critical compared to the normal medium.
When using Elemental weapon, it also does a tiny crit instead of a medium one, the extra elemental crit is not affected, though, since these type of creatures is harmed by elemental attacks.

The ruling looks pretty clear to me, though depending on your campaign, you might want to alter it. To give the players more of a chance for once, but mostly to stop players waving around with torches in ghosts, which looks silly, but is, by this rules, much more effective than using a sword. ;-)

Good that you posted this again. I had this questions because I missed the enchanted from the magically enchanted weapons. 

Now it is clear. Thanks.