Topic: Material vs Magical vs Quality Bonus

[Marc R]

IF you can find it, reference it. . . .hard to find some of those reference-in-place erratas.

[markc]

I can't remember where I saw it but years ago, there was an article or something that indicated that material and quality bonuses don't stack with enchantments EXCEPT for negative ones. So a +20 enchanted bronze sword would be a +0 weapon. I still go by that.

 I think this is something that Rasyr had proposed in the same thread that he ruled on the other stuff.
MDC

[Marc R]

official rulings nobody can find = "if a tree falls in the woods. . ."

If'n you find it, I'll move it to errata.

[Cormac Doyle]

technically, from a materials POV, bronze can be worked to quite a high quality ... the default assumption that bronze is "worse" than iron is simply a major mistake.

Bronze is more expensive because ...
1. Bronze is *harder* to work (technically - getting the amalgam just right is harder than in basic Iron/steel production)
2. Bronze is more frangible than iron (parry an attack with an iron sword ... you still have a sword. Do the same with a bronze sword too often and you need to get a new sword)

A +0 bronze sword compared to a +0 iron sword ... the iron sword wcould be churned out by the dozen by an adequately trained smith; the bronze swoprd would be the work of a master craftsman.
The simple way of modeling this is to say that bronze should be "by default" a -10 material, but the combination of a skilled craftsman & high-quality materials should mean that a "top of thge range" broze sword and a top of the range damascus steel sword should have equivalent bonuses (+20 or +25 max for both). The rarity would be different - the bronze sword would be one in a million; the steel sword would be one in 10 thousand ...

Iron age warriors beat bronze age warriors not because INDIVIDUALLY the weapons were better, but that the iron weapons could be mass produced ...

[Cormac Doyle]

PS ... in my games, Elves use Bronze, humans use Iron. One on one, often the elven weapons and armour are better ... but for every elven warrior, there will be 20 equivalently armed humans ...

Elves hate iron, and hate the dwarves for working with the humans to produce iron weaponry

[markc]

technically, from a materials POV, bronze can be worked to quite a high quality ... the default assumption that bronze is "worse" than iron is simply a major mistake.

Bronze is more expensive because ...
1. Bronze is *harder* to work (technically - getting the amalgam just right is harder than in basic Iron/steel production)
2. Bronze is more frangible than iron (parry an attack with an iron sword ... you still have a sword. Do the same with a bronze sword too often and you need to get a new sword)

A +0 bronze sword compared to a +0 iron sword ... the iron sword wcould be churned out by the dozen by an adequately trained smith; the bronze swoprd would be the work of a master craftsman.
The simple way of modeling this is to say that bronze should be "by default" a -10 material, but the combination of a skilled craftsman & high-quality materials should mean that a "top of thge range" broze sword and a top of the range damascus steel sword should have equivalent bonuses (+20 or +25 max for both). The rarity would be different - the bronze sword would be one in a million; the steel sword would be one in 10 thousand ...

Iron age warriors beat bronze age warriors not because INDIVIDUALLY the weapons were better, but that the iron weapons could be mass produced ...

 Good Point.
MDC

[Marc R]

IIRC there is some overlap between Bronze and the Ferrous bunch in terms of bonus range.