Author Topic: Race vs. Culture  (Read 4871 times)

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Offline markc

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2011, 06:10:03 AM »
 What about the Dwarven River Traders from RMSS/FRP Races and Cultures book?
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Offline John Duffield

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2011, 06:22:21 AM »
In my HARP games I split culture into two aspects - Race and Society - so half your culture comes from your racial heritage and half from where you grew up.  So each race has a set of cultural skill ranks and each location/culture provides the other half.

From memory, given it has been awhile since I have played RM, this should be relatively easy to do in RM.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2011, 06:42:01 AM »
Elves are pansies. Dwarves are way cooler :D

I'll never forget the party that contained the Dwarf Fighter, Dain Brammidge, and the Elf Mage, Boj Giorg.

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Offline yammahoper

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2011, 08:37:44 AM »
(You know not what you trifle with. . . .)

Yamma, is there a story at the bottom of the elf-hating, or is it just a gut, semi-instinctual thing?

Even I have had elven characters.

In RM2, the mage Fee Werland was one of my all time favorites.  Honestly.  Of course, he knew his place and worked to help usher in the age of man, being a middle earth campaign.  Yes, I ran a campaign were a group of powerful elves, mostly 2nd agers with a few 1st agers, tried to over throw the will of Eru and supplant mankind as the natural inheritors of the world.  As someone posted, they make great villians.  Court of Ardor was an amazing module to boot.

I dislike the elves are superior approach.  I dislike them as PC's because most players make no attempt to portray the alien, immortal personalities of being elven:  THE RACE IS ALMOST ALWAYS A STAT GRAB.

Munchkins can't leave elves alone.  Elven archer rangers in any system...yuck.  Their long lives provide players with all sorts of weird advantages.  I also don't like the high level elf that retires then wants to sponser every future PC the player makes cuz the elf is lecherous and constantly spawns bastard offspring it wants to give a part of its heritage too: like a +15 flaming sword for the fighter or that staff of lightning to the lay healer.

Legolas against the elephants was fun to watch, but my game has physics in it.  Magic, yes, AND physics.

I am plain and simply tired of em.  Superior and immortal or live 1500 yrs (read: immortal).  The dumbest mechanics are entered to explain and compensate (look at the old dnd age tables; elves start adventuring at 90 years old or so...overwhelmingly stupid and...and...nonsense).

Next up; why elves?  Why does every gaming world have them?  Tolkien had a reason, and I accept them easiest (though I have learned to not like them much over the years).  Elves will be part of the world, and have absolutely no reason to exist (this is true of more races than justthe elves).

Elves and dwarves hate each other (why?).  It's almost always "just cuz" or some long ago war.  Yawn.

Elves and orcs hate each other...elves are inheriently "right" cuz they protect the forest and nature.  Elves are masters of magic.  Elves have superior perceptive abilities: sight, smell, hearing, seeing magic, visions, but mostly I hope, my butt in thier face.

This elven fetish completely ignores the amazing and complex reality of being human.  In fact, every superior elven trait is only an exageratted human trait.  Their is nothing alien or mytical about them, they are only exagerrated supermen with abilities we wish we had.  Of course, rather than working to develop the experience and skill set and go through the blood and tears of gaining those abilities in a game setting, why not just play an elf because they START with so many of them, or provide a short cut to higher bonuses?  As previously stated, elven characters draw munchkins. 

In the game, other races are so much cooler and interesting.  Humans are at the top of my list, orc types probably next.  I enjoy playing a disadvantaged PC that seeks to find a niche for itself in the world while being hated on by most, particularly the elves, who define all we should like and love and admire and want to be and by golly, if the elves say its bad, well jeepers creepers it just must be bad.

I say stick a knife in the elf and move on.  Their is no way I, as a mortal, am gonna try and base my life style on elvish anything.  On a more positive note, if elvish children take 90 freaking years to actually reach level one, lets abduct their children, use them as free slave labor for 60-80 years, and when they grow old enough to become a threat, they can support nature as fertilizer in our orchards and we can go get more young elves!

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Offline kustenjaeger

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2011, 09:20:43 AM »
Greetings

I have a (non-RM) fantasy game running where the PCs are all human and their experience with the aelfar/fae was unsettling to say the least - no-one got hurt but the PCs were pretty scared.  I'm not sure I could manage a fae PC in that setting as the player would struggle to manage a lot of cultural issues over and above the inability to speak falsehood (omit truth/imply something etc are fine ...), their ties to the particular geography, their relations with their 'Dukes' etc.  This isn't a particularly new concept drawing as it does on some of the other stories of elves, but it makes a change for players who've only ever encountered Tolkien version elves.

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Edward

Offline David Johansen

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2011, 12:57:55 PM »
I think it would be good to try harder to give elves some limitations.  Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay elves have exceptional stats but fewer fate points with which to escape certain death.  Personally any character I feel is unbalanced simply doesn't get any plot immunity.

There was this dwarf berserker with a double headed flail from the races and cultures book who never seemed to fumble (01-09 & 2 attacks per round)  So when a shadow elf shanked him in a melee, I let him die plain and simple.  Usually when a PC takes a certain death crit I allow some setting related remedy (poor paladin owing favors to the druidic gods...) but if they've got a broken and abusive character well, then they don't need my help right?

Offline Cory Magel

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2011, 01:00:17 PM »
Getting lucky on your rolls doesn't exactly seem to justify calling a character unbalanced and treating it in an unfavorably biased manner.
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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2011, 06:35:14 PM »
On the continent of Kuhara, with six possible PC nationalities, these are the races, with the number of cultures for each in parentheses: Dwarves (3, although variation is slight in game-mechanical terms), Elves (1), Halflings (1), Humans (7, with subcultural breakdowns of lower, middle, and upper class for the true urbanites), Orcs (2), Snakemen (1). There'd actually be more, but I'm lazy. Humans see the most variation, but the Elven and Dwarven populations are culturally united by the presence of an ancient civilization of their kind, whereas the rest are newcomers. Snakemen are rather rare in any case, and mostly concentrated along the southern coast. Theoretically, if I were  less lazy or had a player looking to make a character of a kind that demanded it, I'd have another culture for Elves and a couple more for Halflings. But go to another continent and every one of the those races would have a different culture, I just haven't detailed them out yet. I'm varying adolescent skills, languages, typical hobby skills, cultural weapons for initial selections, and in some cases Everyman/Occupational/Restricted skill assignment.
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Offline pastaav

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2011, 11:36:03 PM »
Deverry elves are plain living and breed horses. This mean that if not race and culture are independent then RM is unable to handle such settings. For any given game world it is very likely that elves has a single culture, but that is setting issue and not something the game rules should enforce.

Speaking about ranks from cultures...I am of the firm belief that a culture should be a pools of DP instead of ranks. Each culture give a certain amount of DP to spend on athletic skills. The player can move DPs between pools at the exchange ratio of 1:2. With this setup we get the best of RM2 and RMSS. Culture mean something about what the character tried to learn as kid, but the profession of the character mean something when it is decided how much of it they managed to learn. 

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Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2011, 12:21:32 AM »
Everyone should be aware that ICE did eventually split race and culture (http://www.ironcrown.com/?page_id=683), although I'm not sure how they did it, since I've never seen that Races and Cultures book. I didn't find it that difficult to do myself, so I don't have a lot of interest in that particular book.
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Offline Cormac Doyle

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2011, 03:16:17 AM »
Advantage of that book is that it focuses on the Shadow World races/cultures.

There are a few points that I might quibble about, but in general it was well written and allows you to spec up PCs and NPCs in a nice, consistent manner ...

Offline markc

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2011, 04:01:32 AM »
Deverry elves are plain living and breed horses. This mean that if not race and culture are independent then RM is unable to handle such settings. For any given game world it is very likely that elves has a single culture, but that is setting issue and not something the game rules should enforce.

Speaking about ranks from cultures...I am of the firm belief that a culture should be a pools of DP instead of ranks. Each culture give a certain amount of DP to spend on athletic skills. The player can move DPs between pools at the exchange ratio of 1:2. With this setup we get the best of RM2 and RMSS. Culture mean something about what the character tried to learn as kid, but the profession of the character mean something when it is decided how much of it they managed to learn.


 I am going to guess that they did it that way to make it easy on new/nerer players. But I could be wrong.


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Offline David Johansen

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2011, 05:49:08 AM »
Personally undefined ranks or DPs in packages are the real reason RMSS character creation bogs down so badly for newbies.  Flipping back to the skill list happens far too often.

Offline rdanhenry

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2011, 07:40:30 AM »
Advantage of that book is that it focuses on the Shadow World races/cultures.

That's a disadvantage for those who don't use Shadow World.
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Offline pastaav

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Re: Race vs. Culture
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2011, 11:14:17 AM »
Personally undefined ranks or DPs in packages are the real reason RMSS character creation bogs down so badly for newbies.  Flipping back to the skill list happens far too often.

I don't understand what you mean. It is given that flipping book pages take time, but if you have the available DP, the costs (recorded on your character sheet) and the skill list you can keep the skill list open.
/Pa Staav