Topic: Fumbling Elemental Spells

[Marc R]

I'd prefer to fumble, than fail, with an elemental attack. . .I can understand a failure to cast right meaning I eat it on the SF table, but shouldn't I be able to get the spell off. . .then throw it really badly?

You shoot the lightning bolt into the sky, or your foot, or you partner's back. You set the fireball off right on top of yourself, or over in the stands of the stadium rather than on the field. . .

Plus the F results get more common as the AT goes up. . .why is the fact the enemy is wearing full plate make it more likely I'll internalize the lightning bolt and combust?

[markc]

 I have always used 1 roll for EA spells, sort of like defensive spells in that a roll of over 03 always succeeds. So for EA the fumble is built into the attack table.


MDC

[Marc R]

The annoyance there is you bolt someone in plate mail, and you roll a 04, and go to the spell failure chart, while if you roll a 04 on a naked guy, it just misses.

Sending what should be a fumble to the spell failure chart is weird, since armor of the target ups the F range. (Actually, that in and of itself seems kind of silly, since it's not like shooting a longbow at someone in plate mail makes it more likely to break the string or shoot yourself in the foot.)

[Ecthelion]

Yes, that part is weird and should probably be changed.

[yammahoper]

I like that weird part and hope it stays that way.

If lots of dead stuff messes with manipulating essence so much a mage cant wear or carry or lot, then why shouldnt it also mess with attacking with a bolt spell, since it does with BAR spells.  A bolt is still a spell.  If it a pattern of essence that makes fire or cold or ice or what ever or if it tapping into the elemental planes, the armor could affect that.

[markc]

 I can say I also like it and see no reason for a change.


MDC

[Marc R]

On a BAR, I manipulate essence over here, reach over there, then manipulate essence over there on you. . .I could see some shielding effect of metal taking part per the target as it does with the caster

But if I call up a fistful of elemental fire here, and throw it at you over there 100' away, as I miss it retcons and I combust into Spell Failure?

[rdanhenry]

Because the spell includes some targeting, which is why Directed Spells is its own group of skills/skill category, instead of the Magician having to learn Fire Bolt as Thrown Weapon with a cost of 9DPs.

[yammahoper]

Assuming our spell user shapes essence into a pattern of fire, and throughout the casting and directing of the spell some concentration is needed to maintain that patter, and that the targets armor can indeed interfere with the maintaing of the pattern of essence...its a ll a matter of perception.  If you see bolts and the like as lobed bombs then the current system makes little sense.

This is an old discussion we had long ago regarding the nature of magic.  Was a good discussion too.

[Marc R]

Don't go maundering old fart on me. . . .next you'll be telling me how you walked uphill in the snow to school both ways. . .in Michigan where snow is real snow.

I'd prefer seeing the caster occasionally misfiring the bold into the blue, or a friend, or his shoe. . .

[rdanhenry]

The Elemental Attack Spell Failure results with mistargeting are:

101-125: Wide right.
126-150: Wide left. (Specifically hits nearest alternative target.)
151-175: Fire in reverse of intended direction (hitting any available target).

Not a lot of variations, but it does happen and isn't too unlikely once the roll picks up some bonuses.

[Marc R]

I find that SF tends to skip those results. . .casual SF is generally low, and when someone decides to attempt something way out of their league (which happens from time to time) the bonuses stack up to push way out. . .of those three, the "Fire in reverse" has happened a few times.

It's funny that the table there goes: Fail to cast, minor internalization, succeed in casting but misfire, major internalization. . . .

You'd think it would go: Successfully cast but misfired, failed to cast, minor internalization, major internalization.

[yammahoper]

You could make a flaw for this.  On any casting/attack roll of double digits (11, 22, 33, etc) other than 00 the caster rolls d10 to determine compass direction the bolt is cast, with one being north, 9 up and 10 down.

Call it a 10 pt flaw.

[Marc R]

Heh. . .I recall many times needing to deal with the RM2 "Friendslayer" BGO (I think that was it's actual name, unless we just called it that due to the results). . .where all non extraordinary spell failures target the nearest friendly rather than sending the caster to the SF table.

It made it across into Talent Law P70. . .and indeed is worth 10 points.

I'm not looking to shoot the fighter in the back, just thinking a fumble shot self in foot or fumble bolt fires off into the wall makes more sense than mostly a bunch of internalizing the magic results, which is what you get 90+% of the time.

I get the logic of not wanting to roll well then blow an attack roll, but you can roll well, then blow the RR for BAR spells. . . .and you can develop OB with an attack spell, and they're not parryable without a counter spell effect.