Topic: Newbie HARP questions

[wheelercub]

Hey gang - sorry if some of these have been covered, but I'm brand new to HARP. That said, I'm an old, old, old, MERP and Rolemaster fan from back in the day. So much so, that I had every book released and inadvertently memorized many of the rules over time. That said and after about a 15 year vacation, I've recently decided to jump back on the bandwagon. From what I've read, HARP is a very impressive system. But before I make my purchase, I wanted to get some input/feedback on a few things I found confusing.

1) I was thinking of purchasing the HARP Hardbound Value Pack 1 which includes the books listed below. My first question is whether or not these are part of the HARP Revised Editions or the old rules? If they don't include the revised editions, where can I get them and if they do include them, what types of materials are in the revised editions?
    * #3000h HARP Hardbound (reg. $33)
    * #3001h Martial Law Hardbound (reg. $28)
    * #3002h Monsters: A Field Guide Hardbound (reg.$30)
    * #3003h College of Magics Hardbound (reg. $30)
    * #3004h Loot: A Field Guide Hardbound (reg $30)

2) I read somewhere that the main hardbound book comes with a character generation CD. What's the story with that? Is it only for the primary classes or can it be applied to all the additional classes and add on spells?

3) What is the CD ROM like? I stumbled upon this, and I like the idea. Is it a searchable tool or is it just the regular PDFs on a CD ROM? Are the other materials available on other CD ROMs?

http://shop.ironcrown.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_8&products_id=490

4) What other books or PDFs are essential? My particular group of friends loved character generation and lots of spell lists from Rolemaster. So I want to make sure that I have all the available converted classes, spells, and combat options available. So beside the above listed books, is there a definitive list of must-have materials for this?

5) I saw there was a HARPer's Bazarre Annual 2005 for sale and I like what I've read on it so far. Is this a must-have? Also, I couldn't find one for 2006 or 2007? How many are available and are they worth owning?

6) I was trying to read the content of some of the PDF Files, but unfortunately most of the links redirect to the ICE Store Front page. Am I doing something wrong? http://www.ironcrown.com/hotandnew.htm#pdfs

7) What's The Codex Hardbound? Is it a must-have? Is that all the game spells in one location?

Thanks ahead of time for the answers and the additional help. I'm really excited to get back "in the game" and I can't wait to get my hands on the full collection.

[Thom @ ICE]

1 - Any HARP product you buy direct from ICE will be revised versions. If you buy from a local gaming store, you may (very minimal chance) get a pre-revision product.

2 - The software deal fell through (more than once). What is available is a very comprehensive excel spreadsheet (and I believe also an Open Office version) in the vault/download section. Look for Jonathan Dale's Expanded version of the excel to get all of the extra bells/whistles which work with the majority of the books.  The Open Office stuff from Allen Maher is absolutely fantastic (if you use Open Office)

3 - CD-ROM version would be a single CD with PDF's of the books. There are no extra's - just PDF versions of the books.

4 -
Required Books:
HARP #3000

Highly Recommended:
Martial Law #3001 (lots of combat related stuff)
College of Magics #3003 (Most people would label this REQUIRED especially if you want spells and spellcasting - as close to a must have as there is)
Bazaar Annual 2005 #3006 (good new optional rules - new professions, spells, etc.)
Hack & Slash PDF (excellent alternative for combat critical charts!)

Recommended:
Monsters: A Field Guide #3002 (limited number of monsters, but lots of info on each to help out a GM)
Loot: A Field Guide #3004 (Interesting magic items and materials to help out a GM)
HARP The Codex #3007 (Expanding magic even further - no where near as good as College of Magics, but still very good)
Other HARPer's Bazaar issues (Good products, but eventually they'll do the next compilation and you'll have plenty to read with the other products - big plus is the $2 price tag for each pdf)

5 - I strongly recommend HARPer's Bazaar Annual 2005. No additional compilations were published, but they very well might be in the future.

6 - Not sure about that. If you are interested in the HARP pdf table of contents information just let me know and I'll provide some info.

7 - Codex is a combination of spells from the Grimoire pdf, and some rewrites from the original HARP book. Not a must have, but a good mix of spells, some new professions and Training Packages. This does not include all of the spells that have been published.

I hope that answers the questions for you. If you have any others, just ask.

[masque1223]

I agree pretty much with everything TJones said, except that if you buy the Bazaar Annual, you don't need the Hack & Slash pdf, as it's included in the Annual.  I would also recommend the Cyradon hardcover, but that's because I like the setting, it's certainly not required for HARP with another setting.  I also prefer the OpenOffice chargen template to the Excel one, it seems much more comprehensive, unless the Excel one has been updated to match.  OpenOffice is free to download.

[Hawkwind]

I also agree with most of what has been posted except that I would push Codex above the HARPer's Bazaar annual (although I would get both ) as it adds an area that had been lacking in the core rules, and that is the area of mentalism type spells.

Hawk

[Thom @ ICE]

Masque1223 -
Nice catch on the Hack/Slash - Annual thing.  I bought all of my products individually so I don't actually own the annual as a single product.

[wheelercub]

You guys are awesome! Thank you so much for giving me these much needed details. Knowing that all the books have been updated, I will be ordering the following recommended books online along with the discount PDFs so I can view them on my laptop as well:

* HARP #3000
* Martial Law #3001
* Monsters: A Field Guide #3002
* College of Magics #3003
* Loot: A Field Guide #3004
* Bazaar Annual 2005 #3006
* HARP The Codex #3007

Additional questions and comments:

1) Is there a book #3005 that I overlooked?

2) What is your take on the HARP Character Book #3009? I like the concept of a bunch of pre-made characters and new training packages, but is there enough content to merit buying the book? http://shop.ironcrown.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_8&products_id=487

3) I haven't even read the books yet, and I'm already looking forward to a HARPer's Bazaar Annual 2006 and 2007. Are these currently in the works and if so, what are the ETAs?

4) Between the College of Magics, HARP The Codex, the HARP main book, and Bazaar Annual 2005, is it safe to assume that most, if not all, of the Rolemaster character classes and spell lists are spoken for?

5) From what I've read, combat in HARP sounds simplified to 1) roll dice 2) add total offensive bonus 3) subtract total defense 4) compare results to the appropriate critical chart. Then the critical chart determines both the damage and any special effects such as stuns, bleeding, or instant death. I don't need to know all the exact specifics because I can read them when I get the books, but am I essentially correct?

6) Also, related to question 5 above, I keep hearing about a few alternate combat systems. One which over-simplifies life points and skips all the details of combat, and another that uses the Rolemaster critical tables. I won't use the over simplified version of the game; but the Rolemaster critical version might be right up my alley. How does the RM version work and are the details, crit tables, and everything needed included in any of the books I am buying above or do I need something else?

Thanks again for everyone's comments and help!

[Aaron]

The RM-like criticals are in Harpers Bazaar #11, only avaliable in PDF. Martial law combat system is like basic, but with hit locations on tables. Hack&slash is fast an deadly system, though it makes scaling elemental spells upwards from tiny pretty rare... And there are life points system in core rules and hit dice system in annual.

Razyr said that naming the bazaar collection "annual" was mistake, they will not be puplished annyally. ICE will publish new collection as soon as there are wnoug bazaars out for new book.

[jasonbrisbane]

Hi wheelercub,

Firstly, Welcome to the HARP world!

Just to clarify on point 5).

Combat.

Mostly correct.

Roll 1d100 (open ended high but there is no open ended low) + Skill in weapons (OB) - DB.
If the result is greater than zero then you apply the result to the relevant Critical table, applying any modifiers.

Some modifiers are:
Weapon Size (-20 for tiny to +0 for medium, to +20 to Huge weapons: thus getting the -20 to +20 result on the critical tables)
Power attack (gives +10 to critical and weapon size (thus medium weapons can do a max of 110 on the critical table).
Other various combat actions also have similar effect, including ignoring all weapon size modifiers.

personally, I'd let your group know that you want to see which combat system works best for your group.
Run a few combats using the BASE HARP, then try Martial LAw, then Hack N Slash, etc until you find something you like best.
Our group stopped with Martial Law. The reduced hits, etc done to heavily armoured people/monsters makes it very deadly!

Hope that helps!

[wheelercub]

Thanks for the additional comments. I agree that giving them the choice will likely be the best solution for all of us. As a whole, we really enjoyed the details and variety of the old Rolemaster critical charts, so I'm assuming that they will want to stop there and that I'll need "HARPer's Bazaar Vol #1 Issue #11" as it is the only way to get that system.

Is there any location or message thread that briefly explains the difference between all the systems?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

#3305 == Something Wicked, a product which had some unfortunate authoring attempts (perhaps it was the evil content cursing us or our choices for author). Product is currently being written by Nick Caldwell.

That "difference between all the systems" is something that ICE WANTS to produce, we just haven't been able to do so yet.

HB 12 (coming soon) will have additional material for the combat system released in HB 11 (weapons from Martial Law, additional crit tables (those intro'd in Hack & Slash). and a few other goodies... 

[wheelercub]

Wow - my mouth is now watering. A few more questions now.

1) The #3305 Something Wicked book sounds fun already. I'm assuming it'll be Evil spell lists, classes, and the like?

2) As for HB#11 and HB#12, from what I'm reading I will need both of them. Is this correct or did you mean #12 will include all the material from #11?

3) Was there an ETA on the future of a new HARPer's Bazaar book containing all the previous releases after the Bazaar Annual 2005 #3006 or are those materials being added to releases such as the "Something Wicked" book?

4) When I'm settled in the future; if I have ideas, campaigns, or other types of materials to contribute; how does one go about that?

[jasonbrisbane]

Wow - my mouth is now watering. A few more questions now.

1) The #3305 Something Wicked book sounds fun already. I'm assuming it'll be Evil spell lists, classes, and the like?
 

My impression (which is only that - I dont know the content of what will be in it) is that it will contain that and:

Evil Professions, Evil talents, Evil Spell Spheres, Details/Guidelines for Summoning and Controlling Demons and spirits (which would include the spirits of the recently departed).
Basically anything that an Evil NPC would need to create and wreck havoc on the world if he could learn all of its secrets.

Personally I'd also like to see rules for "Corruption points" or some such thing (was this mentioned elsewhere??) for getting hold of all this evil'ness...

We've been waiting a while for it. Its been unfortunate the ICE has been let down by the authors that had been assigned it it in the past...

[Thom @ ICE]

For more info on Something Wicked, try going to the Guild Companion site and searching on Something Wicked. You get 5 hits and there are some thoughts posted by the planned author.  Now, that does not guarantee that everything mentioned will make the final product, but it does give a chance to see what he's thinking about.

[wheelercub]

Thanks again for the info. And any info on if there will be additional HARPer's Bazaar books containing all the releases after the Bazaar Annual 2005?

[Aaron]

Razyr said somewhere, that another bazaar is coming as soon as there is enough bazaars, and time to edit them to book:)

[WoeRie]

... and we all hope that there is time for editing after HB#12 is released 

As far as I count HB#6 to 11 are already 90 pages, plus HB#12 plus maybe the 10 page Cyradon Gazeeter and the 13 page Haarper's Grimoire (at least these two would be very cool to finally see paper, too. However there was never an official comment regarding this).

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

HB #12 will be out within a week at most (tomorrow at earliest).

Another Bazaar compilation will be done when we have enough material to make a decent product out of it, AND we have time to compile it (this being the bigger issue)....

[munchy]

Yay, can't wait. Any hints on the contents?

[wheelercub]

I ordered my books and downloaded my PDFs yesterday and I have to say that I'm thoroughly impressed with everything. And while I love the Rolemaster Critical Combat System, I was surprised to see that it was an abbreviated version of the critical charts (one column for each effect) as opposed to a separate column for crit levels A thru E. And the main charts that determined initial damage and critical level were my good old MERP combat charts--which I have always loved. I think if my group wanted to go with this system, they would want to use the MERP combat tables along with the full RM critical tables with 5 columns for each crit type.

That said, I also really loved the combat system in Martial Law because it maintains multiple columns (one for each hit location) while eliminating the need for a separate primary attack table.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Yay, can't wait. Any hints on the contents?

Now that it is up for sale, yeah.

Weapon Stats for weapons from Martial Law for the CCR from HB11
4 new crit tables for use with CCR from HB11 (Acid, Magic, Holy, Slaying)
4 Clerical Orders - for Cyradon
Addendum to the Mist Walking section of Cyradon (telling how it is done).

Note: Actually having HB11 and HB6 would be a good idea when purchasing this issue.