Topic: Print Version and Pricing

[markc]

 I would also like to add that my last group rarely bought anything as they spent their $ on family and RPG computer games. The group since I have moved mosly work at bookstores so they get special pricing on most if not all products, so I am the only one paying full price/retail/discount retail for my rpg's.

 Another thing I might look at is compyright protection on your PDF's in a year or two. As at that point you should have the volume and fan base to prevent all the free gifting of your PDF's.

MDC

[mocking bird]

How will the maps be handled?
Some type of insert/foldout or will they just be pages in the book?

[Defendi]

Black and white interior pages.  I really don't have another option.  As we talked about in another thread, I might produce a second little side product which is nothing but 16 pages or so of color interior maps, like a little D&D module.

[markc]

I think that would be nice to have and it would be interesting to see the sales difference. I also remember D&D S-1 with the fold out pictures, that was sweet especially with all the traps.

MDC

[Defendi]

Yeah, inserts and fold outs are impossible.  I wish they weren't.

[Raf Blutaxt]

I think that $29.95 would be a good start. The last book I bought was Space 1889 which is about the same size. It cost me ? 23.00 which is more or less the same price and I considered it to be quite cheap.

[Dr. Joe]

35$ seems okay to me, plus 12$ for the hardbound, too. Reason: I have the possibility to get the PDF first so I can gauge whether the book is worth it. I have to admit that I'm a bit of a collector, though, so I may be willing to pay a bit more than usual...

I would strongly suggest separating adventures from settings, though (which would reduce the price a bit?). (Especially) softcover books in excess of 200 pages have a tendency to dissolve. Also, I would never expect an adventure in a hardbound!?

[Defendi]

It would reduce the price very little.  Maybe $1 on my end and 2-3 on yours (I'd have to look back over the pricing logic.)  Plus, I'd have to commision new cover art and pay twice for distribution setup fees.  Anyone else feel strongly aobut this?

[Michael Petrea]

I don't feel strongly about it, but Joe does bring up a good point about large softcover books.  But, I think this is only a problem on Product 1 since Products 2 and 3 are <200 pages together.

[allenrmaher]

It would reduce the price very little.  Maybe $1 on my end and 2-3 on yours (I'd have to look back over the pricing logic.)  Plus, I'd have to commision new cover art and pay twice for distribution setup fees.  Anyone else feel strongly aobut this?

You could just use a location map or other reuse art rather than whole new art.  (Art  ain't cheap)  Adventures are more useful in the very portable simple saddle format.

Do you have to pay setup for each book on lulu?  I though once you paid the basic account fees it got cheaper.

[Defendi]

To list on amazon costs, not the initial lulu, but it does double the amount of sales I have to make to go do amazon.  It also doubles the print cost when I try to get into distribution.

[allenrmaher]

When you list on amazon, do you end up with returns? 

Plus you need a block of ISBNs right and iirc those are not free to US citizens, something like 250 for 10.  (Canadian Publishers get ISBNs for free)

The costs do add up.  Sigh.

How is the setup process, I have read through the basic info and it looks ok... though calculating binding size for the cover and the trim looked a little more challenging than ye plain old PDF making.

[Defendi]

I'm not sure how Amazon does returns.  I know they list with Ingram too, which I think means the book can be stripped for a refund.  I need to ask them about that.

With Lulu, you don't have to go get your own ISBN, they supply one when they list you through all their distrbutors.  THAT costs a good deal though (for a company my size it's a good deal, at least).

I've never actually done a setup, although it seem RELATIVELY painless.  There's an extra step or two when you go to distribution, because you have get the ISBn, then generate a bar code, then place them on your cover and reupload (if you use wrap around at least, which I will).  Jonathan Dale is pretty happy with them.  I've ordered a couple of other people's books so I can get a general seonse of quality.  They haven't arrived yet.

[allenrmaher]

Ah... the 100  published by lulu option... the draw back of that is that Lulu becomes the publisher of record and owns the book's ISBN.  Since it is  print on demand the publication rights might never revert to you... so if you want to do a big order printing (I know dreaming in Technicolour here) you are under restrictions.

The 50 dollar option seems the same except you have to buy the ISBN and are the publisher of record which means you are free to do print runs with other people when ever you want.  The US does charge a fair bit for a block of 10 ISBNs though (250 or so I think).

All in all not a bad way to get a book done relatively cheaply (compared to the minimum runs of 400 at some other places).  I think I will opt for the $50 option (when I have something ready to go)  but then ISBNs are free to Canadian publishers (our government subsidizes the arts).  That way (dreaming again) if I ever wanted to do a run of 400 and stock pile them (significantly more profit and hassle... but it gives you trade show stock) I don't have to pay Lulu prices for them. (good for POD, not as good on small to medium runs)

I am interested to hear how the experience goes.  I'll be sure to add your book to my birthday wish list... but if past experience is any indication I'll have to buy it for myself while my wife gets me something I  don't want.  (don't tell  her I said that).

[allenrmaher]

I just checked out their bulk prices and they don't seem that bad for a 1-4 hundred run... not as good as some but still not bad.  So it may not be a problem to go with them as publisher of record.

[Defendi]

I think its 150, not 50. 

Where do they have bulk rates.  I've never seen that.  Is there a link?

[allenrmaher]

http://www.lulu.com/help/index.php?fSymbol=ordering_faq#FAQLink1

There is a link to the book cost calculator that shows you what you pay for bulk orders.

In the payment FAQ there is a disincentive for Published by Lulu... they have withholdings on earnings for returns and other expenses.  They only issue revenue periodically as well...  I wonder if there is more information available for that.

For an RPG book is Amazon.com and general distribution a good thing for a small press item where you have returns and other silliness to deal with?  Could you make an account, upload your material for your  own printing only and just get bulk copies 50 to 100 at a time and sell it from your own site... or to an RPG distributor (dreaming again)... at the odd convention and through your FLGS.

Even if you left POD for customers without the distribution you save on fees and can direct your customers too it.   Is there a business case for being on Amazon in the RPG market?

[NicholasHMCaldwell]

Given that Amazon will discount conventional products quite severely (and stopping them doing this is an ongoing issue), being listed on Amazon is not necessarily a good thing.

Best wishes,
Nicholas

[Defendi]

I have no problem with Amazon discounting, but they probably won't discount me, so it's unlikely to matter on my end.

Thanks Allen.  I've read that several times and never noticed that the calculator itself shows the discounts.

[Michael Petrea]

I seem to remember that Bruce in one of the newsletters regarding the in-house printer suggested that the print shop would produce the ICE line and other unrelated print jobs as capacity allowed.  This suggests to me that they might have excess capacity (once they catch up on the backlog) that you might be able to use while negotiating a better price/cut with ICE than with Amazon or Lulu.  Though you might have to handle distribution yourself.  Have you approached Bruce with this idea?

Of course, I could be in inaccurately remembering the newsletter or may have mis-read something.