Topic: Looking for Gamer's opinions

[Ares6609]

Greetings all,

A few friends and I are looking into opening a one stop place for RP and Gamers to go, hang out, RP, buy what they need (Books, dice, maps, ect.) Doing that we plan a few stages first being a cafe and store. After that, the plan is to create environments for live action, miniature, table top Role Playing and LAN gaming.

What I am looking for is other opinions how things should be. My RP style and desires may not be what others want so I want to get as many ideas as possible.

My Idea was to create an Inn style front where the cafe/store would be and have that open into the larger space that we would make resemble a small medieval city. Each house or building would serve as a place to tabletop RP and also some "outdoor" scenes (I.e. cemetery, forest etc.) This would also serve as a place to Live action RP.

Any and all ideas and opinions welcome!! Please!!

Thanks in Advance,
Ares

[markc]

 IMHO this is a tough one depending on your location. And as they say location is everything. Also is there a need for something like this in your area? Is the need big enough to support the idea you have?


 As you have stated cafe (food, drinks, etc),  store, location for LARP, and Lan Games. This is very generic in nature and sounds good what else were you looking for?
MDC

[yammahoper]

Thye is a business with two locations in Grand Rapids MI called ULX (Ultimate LAN Experience).  I use to game online with them, even went to their store for a few events.  Look em up and if you contact them, they should have great advice they might be willing to share.  They were always very pro gamer in my experience and willing to discuss licensing requirements, hard ware, location, etc.

Good luck.

[pastaav]

I have in Sweden worked with a club house for similar gaming. Have also participated with advice to a company that started a LAN/miniature, table top Role Playing and board game place. Both exist today, but took years to get stable enough to survive on their own.

My experience from there might not be on spot due to different countries, but my general advice is that it horribly hard to jumpstart such a meeting place. A person that is jumping up and down and talking about how awesome your place sound will probably not turn up at the end of the day. The problem is that you need a steady supply of people already there before you really can attract new people else people come there and says "this is nice, but I return a later day when there are more people here".

As a general rule of thumb...expect two years of hard work before you got enough customers for things to run on its own. Before that any event you have need to be planned in detail to make sure that it will look like a really good event even if you only manage to attract a very limited group of real visitors. In club house we used "hired" personal (aka friends) there to make sure that when the person person arrived they would find somebody nice to talk with. 

It also follows that it is wise to build a customer base before you invest in the more expensive LARP props.

[Ares6609]

Thank you all for your responses. It is very much appreciated. I am in the Cleveland Ohio area and have been to the few RPG stores we have here. in my opinion they kinda suck. They have like 2 shelves of books and the rest miniatures. I spoke to the owner and asked about RPG books, his answer was "I do not really stock many, I normally order as needed" which seems counter productive to me.

I do believe that it will take more then 2 years to really get going but I will be retiring soon so I need something to do that I enjoy, right? lol Anyways, thanks again.

Ares

[GrumpyOldFart]

So far as I can tell, gamers tend to be a fairly widely scattered group. In other words, you have to be in a place with a pretty high population density to get half a dozen to a dozen people together who want to game without having at least one or two grumble about travel time and gas prices.

Given that, I think the trick would be 1) Does the area have a dense enough population to have enough gamers to support the business and 2) how much do you increase your customer base by adding LAN, LARP, etc. It's a tough margin to hit, considering that as the population density that will support your business goes up, likewise the rents go up as well.

[providence13]

Maybe you can start small.
The 1st car you buy will not be your last.
Start with a coffee shop, like you said. You could have tables and comfortable couches for anyone; regular customers. Wireless. On slow business days, host games! Learn the nuances of that business and then knock out a wall into the adjoining space or convert your storage rooms in the back to RPG areas. Hosting LARP games in the park (public space), would be inexpensive. Just meet before/after at the Dice of Doom Coffee Shop/Gamer's Pub, whatever you call it.

 Good Luck!

[markc]

 I also might say look in to doing something with the schools as they will be a good source of customers.
MDC

[Ares6609]

You guys are right, starting small is a great start. I am in the northeast Ohio area (Cleveland) and we are looking at a few places that are pretty central. We will be heading out today to look at few places and a couple games shops. Last week we stopped at one that was hosting a few miniature games. The shop owner was pretty receptive to having someplace else close by because he really focuses on the miniatures and painting and customizing them. I have no talent for painting so we spoke to him about cross promotion.

Currently the buildings we are looking at are more industrial (more space and much cheaper) The one that looks the most promising is 6k sg ft and plenty of parking. But we will keep looking for now.

Thanks again for the replies.

Ares

[GrumpyOldFart]

I am in the northeast Ohio area (Cleveland) and we are looking at a few places that are pretty central.

Currently the buildings we are looking at are more industrial (more space and much cheaper) The one that looks the most promising is 6k sg ft and plenty of parking. But we will keep looking for now.

Please understand that my opinions are based largely on ignorance of the business world.

That said, basically every businessman I've ever heard of preaches "Location, location, location." How expensive or cheap your physical location is only matters relative to the market available where it is. Nor do I know what zoning laws may apply where you are. Can you put a retail outlet (game store) in an industrial zoned space legally?

I think if it were me I'd look for a business are that wasn't doing very well because it was too close to a High School or a park, somewhere where all the kids hang out. Depending on the business, being swarmed with teens every afternoon can be really good or really bad for sales. In your case, I'd think it would be really good, in the case of something like a bridal and formalwear shop, not so much.

If the place I got was already a retail business,

1) Chances are there are no zoning troubles.
2) Chances are the utilities (electric, plumbing, etc.) are already suitable.
3) Chances are the parking arrangements are already suitable.
4) Chances are the physical location is already set up for basic advertising, such as a huge sign on the shop or in the parking lot. Back in the day as a copier tech, I was amazed at how some places you could drive right by half a dozen times and not know that was it, until you finally figured out where they'd hidden the address block or found it by process of elimination, ie everything else in that block wasn't it, so it had to be that one. You can do that to your copier tech, but if you do that to your customers you won't have any. If the name on your business is placed such that you can't see it until after you've parked and gotten out of the car, you may as well save your money and not put it up at all. Had that happen to me more than once.

If you wanted to be able to expand into LARP, I'd not only look for the dying bridal & formal shop, I'd hope that the businesses around it are dying as well, so I can eventually take them over as LARP set. Some strip shopping center that the nature of the neighborhood has changed since they built it, so the type of businesses that started there aren't making any money there now.

[markc]

  A local shop I went to occasionally when I lived in Novato, CA (Close to SF) had to close down because a Tobacco shop moved in next door and parents did not like their kids hanging out at a shop with smokers hanging out next door. [People and kids hung outdoors at the smoke shop, smoking.] So what is close to you can make a big difference.
Good Luck
MDC   

[providence13]

Everyone has good business ideas.
These might help too:

Stand outside other similar businesses and count the number of people/cars that pass. Using a handheld "clicker" works great.
Is the people/car traffic enough to support your idea?

Become a member of the chamber of commerce. This was a one time $500 fee years ago. Your area may vary. Now, you will have easy access to publicly available info. (Just because it's available doesn't mean it's easy to get. Being a member might make it easier and it may allow you to sit in on small business meetings that affect your area.) Now you can look back on an existing location's bills. What was the power bill, what is the tax on that property, is the parking lot legally zoned.. Unless you increase the square footage or alter the number of fire exits, your business can't legally hold more people than the last business. So your bills will be very similar.
  Now break out the local city maps. What is the average income of the closest 10 miles? 15? 20?... Getting the property tax values on local homes can tell you something about what the locals have for disposable income. At least something.
  How far are people willing to drive for your product. How far do they drive for other services/competitors?

  If you're targeting youth, student enroll numbers should be easy to find, by age. Just ask your questions in a professional manor and tell people up front exactly why you want the info. People are protective of their kids.
Good luck.

[markc]

 Also if you join the Chamber I think you can get on their group health insurance.
MDC