Author Topic: How ICE Should Make Modules  (Read 6237 times)

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Offline ironmaul

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2011, 05:04:32 AM »
Sourcebooks with included modules/adventures and some modules linked directly to the sourcebook setting seem to me to be the way to go. It allows you to build a coherent narrative...one that players and GMs can get into and feel part of.
That makes sense. And packed with heaps of artwork! ;)

Offline RandalThor

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2011, 05:46:24 AM »
Sourcebooks with included modules/adventures and some modules linked directly to the sourcebook setting seem to me to be the way to go. It allows you to build a coherent narrative...one that players and GMs can get into and feel part of.
That makes sense. And packed with heaps of artwork! ;)
I have to say (again) that the artwork is one of the biggies when it comes to getting me to buy a product. Seriously. Seriously. When I grabbed that next module, or other game book, the first thing I did was flip through it to check out the art. (And the maps! Gotta have cool maps.)


That is why I was so happy with the HARP Extreme: the artwork was great.
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2011, 06:52:24 AM »
The Shadow World Tales of the Loremasters books were good.  Detailing small areas and adventures.............complete with maps etc...
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2011, 03:18:50 PM »
The Shadow World Tales of the Loremasters books were good.  Detailing small areas and adventures.............complete with maps etc...
Yup, you add another 80-100 pages detailing the areas more, with more NPCs, locations, etc.. and you have what everyone is talking about. (Me, I am OK with straight adventures.)
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Offline Witchking20k

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2011, 03:44:42 PM »
I'm good with either or. Some of my favorite gaming memories are old D&D modules...
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 04:35:09 PM »
I'm good with either or. Some of my favorite gaming memories are old D&D modules...
Remember when Shrine of Tamoacan came out? Awesome! The Giants Series? Shrine of Kuo-toa? The The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth? Oh, oh: Expedition to the Barrier Peaks? One of my all time favorites? They are all classic and awesome. (But not awesome because they are classic, they are just both.)
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 05:54:08 PM »
You left out the Slave Lords series....  And the Desert of Desolation series...
I would definitely include them with the list that you put together.
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Offline Zhaleskra

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 10:23:25 PM »
Me, I am OK with straight adventures.

I'm fine with a linear adventure as well, my main concern, and what seems to be everyone else's is the "foregone conclusion" approach to adventure events.
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Offline Marc R

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2011, 10:37:48 PM »
The "The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun" was an eye opener for me for me on page 12.

A List of how the monsters in the dungeon would respond to an alarm and emerge to kick the crap out of the PCs.

If you rolled in to lay out those first few gnolls and norkers. . .it was a 6-10 hour session of continuous combat from there on as everyone inside piled out on you.

Never before had a module actually given tactics and logic to the inhabitants, who before that, remained in room #3 where they belonged.
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Offline markc

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 10:46:20 PM »
"Remain in Room #3" IMHO a great name for an RPG Company.
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Offline ironmaul

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2011, 03:12:24 AM »
That is why I was so happy with the HARP Extreme: the artwork was great.
Thanks very much!  8)

I have to admit, for maps, I do prefer the old hand drawn ones as opposed to the PC generated ones.

Offline RandalThor

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2011, 05:42:09 AM »
I have to admit, for maps, I do prefer the old hand drawn ones as opposed to the PC generated ones.
Some of the PC generated ones can be good - especially when they can place all the trappings in the various locations. By trappings I mean things like chests, desks, lamps, etc....
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Offline ironmaul

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2011, 06:35:11 AM »
I agree with you. This day and age it's more economical to use digital maps that can be tweaked at a moments notice. Although, if it something that's well thought out in advance, one could reproduce that nostalgic look.

I like the idea of an area source book for RM. Thing is it ain't going to come to light if nobody approaches Nicholas with a proper fleshed out idea. I think there was talk of a collabarated effort sometime ago?

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2011, 06:44:12 AM »
I'm fine with a linear adventure as well, my main concern, and what seems to be everyone else's is the "foregone conclusion" approach to adventure events.

Well I stand by my earlier statement that a GM can't build a box so big his players won't try to go outside it. So between the players' normal reaction when they feel they are being railroaded and the usual desire to look for a different /innovative solutions to problems, I feel like if you don't have the area sourcebook, when your players go outside the box of your linear adventure, you're stuck having to make things up on the spot.

Half the point of getting a module is to avoid having to do just that, no?
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Offline TerryTee

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2011, 06:56:32 AM »
I really like modules with a story (or an adventure). It does (should)  not have to be set in stone, forcing the players from A to B to C, but a nice outline of a plotline (or several plots) laid out in one or several possible stories are good. I certainly run such stories without railroading the players. I may put in hints to get them back on track of the story if they deviate too much, but I have thrown away several stories simply because the players chose not to follow the plots or hits that were laid out.

I see several benefits to this:
1 – A well written adventure can (often) be put into any setting, as supposed to a sourcebook that describes people, places and society in a more specific setting. Source books can also be adjusted, but it takes more work.
2 – It is much faster to prepare for a game by reading an adventure instead of a source book.
3 – I think it is faster and thus cheaper to produce an adventure than a source book.
4 – When I have read and digested a source book then I have an environment to play in but not necessarily a story to play. I already have lots of fun stuff for the environment, but like input on cool adventures to play out in them.

-Terry

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2011, 08:39:13 AM »
Quote
...but I have thrown away several stories simply because the players chose not to follow the plots or hits that were laid out.

Exactly. And the more the information given by your sourcebook/module confines itself to what's germane to the adventure, the more likely you are to find yourself "winging it" when your players choose not to follow the plots or hits that are laid out.

Fair enough, if you're not capable of running off the rails and creating on the fly, you should probably be a player rather than the GM. That comes with the territory. But at the same time, you just negated the value of the money you spent on the sourcebook/module, no?

That's my point: When, not if, the party runs off the rails, the bulk of the book should still be filled with reasons the GM is glad he bought it, even now.

 ;)
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Offline intothatdarkness

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2011, 08:45:30 AM »
When I created my world (which was actually submitted to the original ICE and had been accepted for development prior to the bankruptcy), one of the things I had planned for the enclosed "module" was a fleshed-out description of one region complete with motives and goals for a number of small baronies and city-states. That would give GMs plenty to work with so that if their players went "off the rails" they would be able to flesh out their own adventures in the same region. There was also a fair amount of detail give for each state, kingdom, and race so that GMs could find their own "comfort zone" and plan adventures and such anywhere in the main region they wanted.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2011, 10:14:25 AM »
1 – A well written adventure can (often) be put into any setting, as supposed to a sourcebook that describes people, places and society in a more specific setting. Source books can also be adjusted, but it takes more work.
Actually, I generally see/believe that it is the well written ones that are setting specific. The generic ones tend to be, well, too generic to have flavor (and, thusly, not be good).

Quote
2 – It is much faster to prepare for a game by reading an adventure instead of a source book.
Depends upon the size and complexity of the adventure, but I would agree to this in a general sort of way.
Quote
3 – I think it is faster and thus cheaper to produce an adventure than a source book.
Like 2, above, maybe and then maybe not. But that isn't the main factor in producing adventures (or in the lack of producing them, actually). The fact that out of a game group, it is generally the GM that is the only one to buy an adventure - as opposed to setting material - means that less than 1 out of 4 (probably higher) gamers is buying adventures on a regular basis. When that pool is not huge to begin with....
Quote
4 – When I have read and digested a source book then I have an environment to play in but not necessarily a story to play. I already have lots of fun stuff for the environment, but like input on cool adventures to play out in them.
Yes, but a good sourcebook has flavor just spilling forth from its bindings, enough so that you get tons of ideas just reading it. A very good example of this is the Iron Kingdoms Campaign Guide; as I read it I needed to have a notebook handy because I kept writing down all the ideas it was giving me for the various locations. It doesn't have any mini-adventures in it at all, but I walked away with nearly 2 dozen adventure ideas, several of which could be combined into a campaign.

Now, I hope all of that doesn't make you think I don't like published adventures because that is opposite from the truth: I love them. I wish more games would put them out. Heck, I am subscribed to the Pathfinder Adventure Path series, as well as their module series, not because I think their world is so fantastically awesome, but because I like getting published adventures, complete with maps, NPCs, stories, etc... so that my work as a GM is made easier. (So, laziness is at the core of this for me. No surprise there. :o) I am just able to see both sides of the situation. (It's a curse.)

I just wish Shadow World* had adventure paths or module series coming out regularly, I would so subscribe!


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Offline markc

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2011, 01:22:32 PM »
I really like modules with a story (or an adventure). It does (should)  not have to be set in stone, forcing the players from A to B to C, but a nice outline of a plotline (or several plots) laid out in one or several possible stories are good. I certainly run such stories without railroading the players. I may put in hints to get them back on track of the story if they deviate too much, but I have thrown away several stories simply because the players chose not to follow the plots or hits that were laid out.

I see several benefits to this:
1 – A well written adventure can (often) be put into any setting, as supposed to a sourcebook that describes people, places and society in a more specific setting. Source books can also be adjusted, but it takes more work.
2 – It is much faster to prepare for a game by reading an adventure instead of a source book.
3 – I think it is faster and thus cheaper to produce an adventure than a source book.
4 – When I have read and digested a source book then I have an environment to play in but not necessarily a story to play. I already have lots of fun stuff for the environment, but like input on cool adventures to play out in them.

-Terry


 I agree fully.


 As to buying adventures vs buying source books, I have seen it go a couple of ways. the first is where people have $ and most buy the source books and the second is where one or two buy the source books and lend it to others when needed/wanted. So IMHO the pool can be larger but not much larger by a bigger number on average.
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Rule #0: A GM has the right to change any rule in a book to fit their game.
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Use a System to tell the story do not let the system play you.

Offline Witchking20k

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Re: How ICE Should Make Modules
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2011, 08:00:23 AM »
Earthdawn has really well done modules
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