Topic: Action phases for hasted characters

[Doridian]

Hi all. Yesterday night I played solo my first combat between a Fighter and a Monk after a long, long time... This is in preparation of a game I will master with some friends of old in one of next weeks.

The Monk managed to Adrenal Speed himself up, so he had a round with 200% activity (by the rules).

I remembered how it worked with RM2 (a hasted character has further melee phases after the one in common with not hasted characters). But, having it now in real practice with RMSS for the first time, I realized that the rules say nothing regarding Action Phases. At first glance, it seems that they keep being three (Snap, Normal, Deliberate). Is it true? Do you play like this?

Just to give an example: a character with a long bow could normally load it (70%) and fire it (30% at -30) in one round (say in the snap and normal action phases). If the same character is hasted I would expect that he can do the above actions twice in one round. I mean that I would expect that he fires the bow twice. But, if the action phases keep being three, he cannot: he would be allowed to 1- load, 2- fire and 3- reload only. Isn't it odd? How would you resolve it?

Ale

[Cormac Doyle]

you can only act 3 times. Haste means that the attacks can be done at full OB ...

[Kristen Mork]

If your bow is not loaded, then during the round you can: Load @ 70%, Shoot @ 60% and Load at 70%.  You're done!  You could, however, make a melee attack during each phase: 70% Snap attack, 70% Normal attack and 60% Deliberate attack.

Also note that when hasted, you can only move at 150%: 20% in the Snap phase, 50% in the Normal phase and 80% in the Deliberate phase.  Haste and Adrenal Speed are not as nasty in RMSS as in RM2, with the exception that you can make three melee attacks.

[yammahoper]

If your bow is not loaded, then during the round you can: Load @ 70%, Shoot @ 60% and Load at 70%.  You're done!  You could, however, make a melee attack during each phase: 70% Snap attack, 70% Normal attack and 60% Deliberate attack.

Also note that when hasted, you can only move at 150%: 20% in the Snap phase, 50% in the Normal phase and 80% in the Deliberate phase.  Haste and Adrenal Speed are not as nasty in RMSS as in RM2, with the exception that you can make three melee attacks.

If under haste you wish to move the entire 200%, the remaing movement comes after the three melee phases, in the roecovery phase.  So you can move the 200%, fyi.

[Kristen Mork]

Really?  How droll.

[Draeck]

Would not haste enable you to move at 40% during the snap phase, or is the 20% max move during the snap phase a hard and fast rule?

[Kristen Mork]

Nothing in the rules suggests that a hasted character gets more %activity during a phase.  Many people house rule it differently, but not in the RAW.

[Doridian]

[...]  Haste and Adrenal Speed are not as nasty in RMSS as in RM2, with the exception that you can make three melee attacks.

In that case how would you manage the OB/DB split declaration for the round?

I thought the following could be a good (house) rule.

Definitions: Attack Action and Attack Rolls. An Attack Action is the usual attack allowed by a skill. It is one of the actions listed in the tactical round sequence percentage activities (such a melee action usually takes 60%-100% activity). Sometimes, under specific circumstances (refer to the proper skill descriptions), an Attack Action allows for multiple Attack Rolls even against more than one target (just to name one example, see the Two Weapon Combo skill). In those specific cases the skill description states how to handle the eventual OB/DB split for parry purposes and how to apply to the Attack Rolls.

Multiple Attack Actions. When a particular condition (say Haste/Speed spells or Adrenal Speed, to name just two) allows a character more than one "attack" (say more than one melee action), it means more than one Attack Action.
The first Attack Action has the parry OB/DB split declared before rolling for initiative. If nothing is said afterwards, the very same OB/DB split is applied to the subsequent Attack Actions of the same round. Instead, after resolving (i.e. rolling the dice for the last time for) one Attack Action, the character may modify the OB/DB split for the next Attack Action: the new OB/DB split (and its intended target(s)) will be active in the next Action Phase. Inside a single Attack Action the OB/DB splits for multiple attack rolls/targets are ruled by the governing skill description.

What do you think about it? Too liberal or, at the opposite, just as it should be resolved by RAW?

Ale

[Doridian]

Reading through the rules again I'm driven to think that whatever the actions you perform you have to declare all of them in advance. So it would be for the OB/DB split of the various attacks. Maybe they have to be split the same way as it happens inside "one" attack with multiple rolls.

Please forgive me if my questions seem a little strange, but as I was in the past used to RM2 I'm now really fascinated by the "new" (I know they aren't, but to me they appear as such) Action Sequencing rules. Maybe ICE hurried them in production without testing them enough, but I think that potentially the RMSS way of resolving rounds is a blast! So, instead of throwing all away and come back to RM2, I would like to fully understand the "new" rules and maybe integrate them with the missing details without changing what's currently described in the rules.

I see that many things are dependent on each other. Just to name one that seems to me heavily tied to the last question I posed (on OB/DB splits for more than one melee action in one round): the way you (as a GM) manage Canceling Actions is strictly connected with how you approach Action Declaration at the beginning of the round. Maybe I'll open a thread on this topic, if it meets the interest of others here.

[MariusH]

Multiple attacks and parry IS an interresting case. You'll have to declare everything in the declaration phase as with every action, but apart from that I recall the following (needs to be checked): When having multiple attacks with different amount of parry, you get the parry for the PHASE in question that you set fro that particular phase. Attacking the same opponent three times, while he attacks you once, I'd say you get the parry you declared for the phase he attacked you. If you attack in snap and normal, I'd say the parry for normal phase extends to deliberate, and if attacking in normal and deliberate, I'd say the parry for normal extends to snap. When attacking in snap and deliberate, I think using the worst parry (lowest) is maybe most appropriate - some may think using the highest is most appropriate.

But what when you attack multiple foes? Surely, when you attack a foe, you can parry only against him, so you get no parry against the others for that phase. I'd say if attacking different foes in snap and deliberate, you get to choose who you're parrying in normal.

But I must say I AM curious as to how other players play this.

[Ecthelion]

We played it for a long time using the rules you mentioned, MariusH. It basically works fine, but it can be abused. E.g. most animals will usually attack in the Normal Action Phase and not use some kind of tactics of switching Action Phases. When hasted the phase-based parry ruling can be abused by parrying 100% up to the Normal Action Phase and then switching to 100% attack in the Deliberate Action Phase.

End of last year Rasyr made an official ruling that the parry assignment always must be done for the complete round. We use this ruling now.

[MariusH]

Well, I say make animals attack in different phases (possibly randomly). I DID read the official ruling, though, and of course that is what goes - despite the fact that I'm sure I read this in the rules (will look for it).

However, make no mistake: Against multiple foes, that ruling makes the hasted fighter MUCH more powerful than my suggestion. Simply attack in all three phases, with 80/60/60, and put everything on DB (ok, you'll get a +10 to the deliberate attack, but still) and attack three different opponents. Now THAT makes for a truly powerful "tank", as he gets full DB (Well, OB -40 at least) to three attacks for the entire round. Against only two opponents, he obviously gets even more DB against both opponents.

[yammahoper]

I have used the twc rule that any parry is subtracted from all attacks for haste and speed.

[MariusH]

It wasn't in the rule book - I remembered it from this site: http://www.icewebring.com/errata/rolemaster-rulings/#Combat.

[Doridian]

End of last year Rasyr made an official ruling that the parry assignment always must be done for the complete round. We use this ruling now.

Ah, great!!! I've missed it. Thank you!
This brings me directly to the Canceling Actions theme. I'll open a new thread on it, then.
Ale 

[Doridian]

End of last year Rasyr made an official ruling that the parry assignment always must be done for the complete round. We use this ruling now.

Ah, great!!! I've missed it. Thank you!
This brings me directly to the Canceling Actions theme. I'll open a new thread on it, then.
Ale 

I did nothing yet. It's because I'm still mumbling on the new things I've learned.
For instance I was concerned by situations like the following:

- a round begins with character A on a flank of character B;
- each character declares a full melee attack against the other one;
- character B put some of its OB to parry.

Now, for the moment, suppose that turning in place is a separate action (RMSS says nothing; in some RM2 companion, maybe RMC1, if I'm not wrong it's a 5% activity for 60° rotation - a hexside).

Given the above, character B needs to declare a turning (snap) and a full meee attack (normal, with at least a -5 for the % spent, +10 for being a full melee attack).

Before seeing the official ruling of Rasyr, I was prone to consider that if character A declared a snap melee attack, it had the chance of cacthing character B off-guard: winning initiative, the strike would have preempted the turning and character B would not have the benefit of parrying.

Now, instead, I understand (and I like it) that character B would be still allowed to Parry. It still applies that, if character A wins initiative, it gets the flank bonus; otherwise it gets no flank bonus. It makes sense.

The only doubts here for me remain the turning in place activity: which percentage do you apply? Do you usually consider it a separate action?

The fact that there are even spells that allow you to run and make corners without losing speed, it makes me consider that turning should cost as a percentage and even as a separate action, but I would like to know if there is something offical on it (or a consolidated way to GM it). Any help here?

Ale

[MariusH]

I prefer to double the movement allowment for hasted characters, so that they can move 40% in snap, 100% in normal and 160% in deliberate - up to a total of 200%, of course. Or you could think of it as moving 20% at double speed. The point is that I think a hasted character should be allowed to move twice as far in any phase as a non-hasted character. Anything else feels very wrong, and an arbitrary consequence of a rule not thought through thoroughly. Perhaps there should be an errara on this: "For hasted characters, the movement allowence for each phase is doubled" or something like that.

[Ecthelion]

Agreed, MariusH.

[Marc R]

Do you double the concentration time for hasted characters? (i.e. make it take 100%, instead of 50%)?

[Cormac Doyle]

You should ... plus, spells that expire in a given time expire twice as fast