Official ICE Forums
Systems & Settings => Rolemaster => Topic started by: mcfion on April 11, 2007, 06:21:15 PM
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hello,
My name is wagner and i'm a gamer from Brazil... I've beem playing rpg for +-13 years (GURPS, D&D, Storyteller, Ars Magica, etc...) And now i discovered Rolemaster and Shadow World... but, where do i begin?
What system should i use? There are many types of rolemaster, and each types has many books... ???
So what do i need to start a campaing (i will be the gm) with rolemaster in shadow world? all players are rpg veterans and we are looking for something new... ;D
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Rolemaster Fantasy Roleplay is the best one book starting point at present.
Don't get intimidated by totalling the bonuses. You can just do the most important ten or so skills and do the rest if they ever come up.
Also, don't scrap the action declaration phase. Having everyone work out their results similtaneously instead of sequentially really speeds up play.
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I'd say that HARPlite is the cheapest and easiest way to try ICE roleplay out. (You can download it for free in the downloads area in the box in the top left of this screen.)
RMFRP is the next easiest step, in that it's one book to purchase with all the materials needed to play. (You can get it by clicking the crown in the left side of the top banner.)
Or you can wait for RMC Lite, a free version of Rolemaster, which should be available soon, though no date has been set yet.
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"Where do I begin..."
And here I thought the next part was going to be... "So, I was at this bar..."
Anyhow. HARPlite is an excellent way to take a look at a basic version of ICE's tabletop system. There's absolutely no reason not to download the free sample and look it over - even if you end up going with Rolemaster it didn't cost you anything to look. It is a slightly simplified version of full blown HARP. ICE isn't all that thrilled with the statement, but will essentially admit it's valid, that HARP is essentially a basic version of Rolemaster. There are some differences (Spell System being the primary one), but that's what it really boils down to if you ask me.
From there you're best getting into RMFRP (and by association RMSS) as that is the current 'supported' version of Rolemaster. I prefer this system over HARP because I like the extra detail it gets into. Although honestly I do like HARPs Spell System a little better. However the skill system, the weapon/combat/attack/crit charts, and the character detail in Rolemaster surpasses HARP imo. Do be a little careful in buying books that cross over between RMFRP and RMSS... basically ask here about their content so you don't end up duplicating things. (For example RMSS's "Spell Law" was broken into RMFRP's "Spell Law: of Channeling" and "Spell Law: of Essence" and "Spell Law: of Mentalism" which some people mistake for RMSS's "Channeling Companion" and "Essence Companion" and "Mentalism Companion").
Rolemaster Classic isn't a bad option, but it is the previous version of Rolemaster and you're just not going to be able to find as much material for it even though they are reproducing some of it. In my opinion it is really a product for "old time" Rolemaster customers. (Although, similar to HARPlite, once RMClite comes out there's no reason not to take a look at that).
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"Where do I begin..."
And here I thought the next part was going to be... "So, I was at this bar..."
Or in RM, three men walk into a bar. Two ducked but one died horribly on a 66 crit.
Anyway...
I think it boils down to if you have Shadow World and want to run in Shadow World. If this is the case then I wouldn't advise going HARPy and attempting to convert. Rather RMC Classic or RMSS would be the way to go as that is the former is the system it is written and RMSS converts pretty easily.
As mentioned though, HARP Lite would give you a basic idea of RM as the mechanics are very similar. There are some free downloadable adventures for HARP by allenrmaher in the downloads section if you want to see 'HARP in action'. The setting is Cyradon. There might use some rules/options in the core book though but it shouldn't matter that much for a low level adventure.
Another shameless plug, er, option is on the Echoes of Heaven setting (finalredoubt press). The suppliments are quad statted for HERO, RM, HARP and d20 and are available as a pack so you could read them and pick a system or compare the different versions to see how they compare.
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RMFRP is probably your best bet if RM is a game you wanna play.
HERO is another great system that comes complete in one book, if you like superheros. You can play fantasy with HERO, but the system works best for supers.
Spacemaster is another choice, if you want a modern or futristic game. One book is all you need to start.
I have not played or bought HARP, so I cannot give an honest comment. If the main rule book is all you need, it should be worth a try.
lynn
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Speaking of bar jokes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyCROoqIDvE
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"Where do I begin..."
And here I thought the next part was going to be... "So, I was at this bar..."
I think it boils down to if you have Shadow World and want to run in Shadow World. If this is the case then I wouldn't advise going HARPy and attempting to convert. Rather RMC Classic or RMSS would be the way to go as that is the former is the system it is written and RMSS converts pretty easily.
As mentioned though, HARP Lite would give you a basic idea of RM as the mechanics are very similar. There are some free downloadable adventures for HARP by allenrmaher in the downloads section if you want to see 'HARP in action'. The setting is Cyradon. There might use some rules/options in the core book though but it shouldn't matter that much for a low level adventure.
Thanks... now i have some directions... i will try this HARPLite with my group =) them i will look into the other systems....
For what i understood RM Classic is the Old rolemaster, but why it is advertised as been completely updated and expanded? there are 3 rolemaster systems (RMC, RMFRP and RMSS)? what are the basic differences between them?
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Brent Knors site has a wonderful explanatino of what is what you should check it out. The link is is the link section of the main web site.
MD
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In a nutshell, with all the codes explained.
Rolemaster started as "RoleMaster" (RM1) then became RoleMaster 2 (RM2) via a bunch of small changes.
Middle Earth Roleplaying (MERP) was created as essentially a simplified version of RM1-2.
Spacemaster (SM1) was the sci-fi variant, later followed RM1-RM2 conversion by becoming Spacemaster 2 (SM2)
In 1995 there was a major version change to Role Master Standard System (RMSS). RM2 was discontinued.
This later underwent some small changes and fixes to Role Master Fantasy Roleplay (RMFRP).
SM2 was converted to the RMSS/FRP version of the rules and called "SpaceMaster: Privateers" (SM:P).
High Adventure Roleplaying (HARP) was released, revised slightly shortly after release, but still called HARP.
RM2 was recently ressurected and slightly revised to create "RoleMaster Classic" (RMC).
HARP Sci-Fi was just released in Beta Version.
Now, current status of this mish mash of acronyms:
RM1 is no longer sold, unless you go trawl Ebey or the like.
RM2 is mostly no longer sold, you can purchase the 4 core books in PDF form at the ICE store (Click the crown in the upper left corner to go there.), but all supplements are again Ebey materials.
RMC is the most up to date incarnation of this version of Rolemaster, and is for sale here in the ICE store in PDF and hardcopy versions (You can also find it in stores and on other sites.)
MERP is dead, very dead, and only available via Ebey hunting and such.
SM1 is no longer sold, unless you go trawl Ebey or the like.
SM2 is mostly no longer sold, you can purchase the core books in PDF form at the ICE store (Click the crown in the upper left corner to go there.), but all supplements are again Ebey materials.
RMSS is as far as I know no longer in print (I could be wrong about that), though ICE and other stores/sites still have a lot of hard copy still available, and PDF versions are still available in the ICE store.
RMFRP is the most up to date incarnation of this version of Rolmaster, and many of the materials are for sale here in the ICE store in PDF and Hardcopy versions. (Some books are no longer available, so again require an Ebey hunt)
SM:P is the only version of the revised SM that I am aware of, and is for sale in PDF and hardcopy versions in the ICE store.
HARP is active and available in PDF and hardcopy versions here in the ICE store and elsewhere.
HARP Sci-Fi is in beta testing stage, and is only available here via the ICE store in PDF form.
That help? Any questions?
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I just have one thing to say: what a mess =P
Both RMC and RMFRP are up to date, right? so the choice between them is just of taste? Since i will run an Shadow World campaing i think i will stick to RMFRP (and i just need two books for begin this, the RMFRP and the 4th ed Master Atlas)...
And it is a shame that none publisher in Brazil wants to print Rolemaster, here we only have D20 with a good support in portuguese =/
Wagner
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Correct, of the Fantasy systems, RMC, RMFRP and HARP are the up to date versions.
Sliding into opinion, rather than fact, I feel the systems get more complex in the following progression:
HARP
RMC
RMFRP
I know the Shadow World stuff was written for RM2(RMC), but much has been converted to RMFRP stats and such. I don't use Shadow World, so I'm not clear on material availability or version variations, hence I cannot offer any advice there. You may be better off asking down in the Shadow World board in terms of what version you should go for.
I know ICE does versions in other languages through licences. . .Does anyone know if there is a portugese translation version? (If it exists, it might be in portugal, so you might end up having to order it online and have it shipped.) I know there's a spanish licencee, is there a portugese one?
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And it is a shame that none publisher in Brazil wants to print Rolemaster, here we only have D20 with a good support in portuguese =/
If you have contact information regarding any Brazilian publishers. You could always share it with ICE. ;D
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And it is a shame that none publisher in Brazil wants to print Rolemaster, here we only have D20 with a good support in portuguese =/
If you have contact information regarding any Brazilian publishers. You could always share it with ICE. ;D
Brazil's larger publisher is Devir <devir.com.br>, which also have subsidiaires in Portugal and Spain. They already publish D&D, Storyteller, and GURPS in Brazil, so I am not confident they would spread their resources into a new line. They are also the major importer and distributor of games in Brazil and, therefore, it might be worthy of contacting them. They used to carry old ICE stuff and, for what I heard, they were good sellers at the time. It would be nice if they return to distribute your stuff. All other publishers are small operations and basically develop their own material, although I've seen them licensing stuff from time to time.
If you're really interested, I can probably find out who is currently responsible for rpgs and give you his contact information.
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IMO I would start on RMFRP and Shadow World 4E. I have a good friend and longtime player who took over GMing my old gaming group and only used those two books for over a year.
Take the campaign slow to learn the rules, then expand into Character Law, Races & Cultures, & School of Hard Knocks from the RMFRP line. Powers of Light & Darkness is cool from Shadow World. After you guys have figured out your "style of play" the Realms books Would probably open some doors for you too....
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Nice idea WitchKing20K =) i will probaly follow that
Monteblanco: As a fellow Brazilian you should know how the market here is... if don't PVT me so i clarify somethings =P
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If you're really interested, I can probably find out who is currently responsible for rpgs and give you his contact information.
Well, if we have contact info, then Bruce can try to contact them. ;D
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Your never going to get a straight answer out of this crowd i am afraid...
As the answer is swayd by thier personal preference.
The RM2/RMC fnas will suggest it and the RMSS/RMFRP fans will suggest that.
For Shadow World, Either system will work... what you need to do is Figure out Which system you prefer..
I would start out By Buying the base book on PDF for both systems....
Buy Rolemaster Classic: Character Law
And Buy RoleMaster Fantasy Roleplaying rulebook.
Study both of them and THEN decide which system style you prefer.
Arms law and Spell Law are, for the most part, the same for either system, so hold off on those until you choose.
This way you don't end up buying the books for one and end up getting fustrated with a style your not happy with and end up buying the books for the other again.
The 2 books i suggest will give you ALL the information you will need to choose between the two.
These guys can say all they want about thier prefeered system, but it won't even come close to the same as Reading the primary Character creations rules and creating a chraceter for both systems First before you decide.... What ever is siad here won't let you really know how each system really works.
i think you will be happier and more sure of your choice if you do this even though you will have bought 1 book you probaly won't use much afterwards.... but who knows.. part of rolemaster is optional rules.. you might find something in one that you want to apply to the main system you choose.
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I will concur with Warl's statement.
I'll add, might as well side-by-side HARPlite at the same time. . .(I'm sure there are enough HARP Shadow World fans out there to make that conversion fairly easy.)
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Hi,
Here my opinion in case you do not want to buy 2 books for your decision:
HARP is only on the outside similiar to RMx, its game mechanics are different. For a newer GM it is much easier, but Combat is not as much fun as with RMx (to me) and it is not supported by Shadow World. But you can try it for free with HARP Lite.
Concerning the choice between RMC and RMFRP:
- RMRFP has currently more supplements
- RMC has currently only the 3 base books available, but I guess most of ICE's resources will support to this version in the next year and not RMFRP.
- RMFRP and RMC are so similiar, that RMFRP add-ons can be taken for RMC with minimal adaptation effort.
- The major difference is character generation. RMC is to me simpler and takes less time, RMFRP tries to be more "realistic". At the end the results are quite similiar...
- The old Shadow World books are for RM2 (and consequently RMC), just 4e is for RMSS (but I am not sure about that, so pls. someone correct me if I am wrong).
- RMC addresses a lof of the RM2 problems that led to the creation of RMFRP.
So if you want a lot of existing material, go for RMFRP. If you want to include SciFi, take RMFRP as it matches with Spacemaster: Privateers. If you want to use a lot of the older Shadow World material, go for RMC. If you want the more future proof version, take RMC (but it will take quite some time until it reaches the completeness of RMFRP). If you want the simpler (and in my opinion better) character generation system, take RMC.
My recommendation: I would take RMC. And if you can't wait, take the equivalent RMFRP supplement (good candidate: Creatures).
And RMC has the nicer covers.
BR
Juergen
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Good idea warl... i will do that =)
About Mungo considerations: There are any official statements that RMC will substitute RMFRP? this really has some weight in my considerations...
The bad news is that my advisor put some dates in my millestones, and right now i am hanged in work =/
So maybe it will take some time for me to prepare any game... (he he he but i will have a master degree next year on Education and my topic is RPG =P, so it is worth off)
Abou the braziliam Publishers, i will do what i can to get the information with my contacts =P... But who is this Bruce and how i contact him?
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Bruce is the CEO of ICE, he's around here from time to time.
If you hit "Staff List" second item from the right on the top navigation bar below the black banner, you can see him, and all the other folks that "work" around here.
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Strange, If that list was people who "worked" aroun d here, it should include a couple of extra names ...
Some day ...
:)
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Tag, I'm it!
lynn
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Bruce is the CEO of ICE, he's around here from time to time.
If you hit "Staff List" second item from the right on the top navigation bar below the black banner, you can see him, and all the other folks that "work" around here.
LM, I can't figure out what you're talking about here. The navigation bar at the top is Home-Help-Search-Profile-etc. Don't see any Staff List, where is it at?
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Removed text so as not to distract from the intent of the thread.
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Vroom
My top bar reads:
"Home, Help, Search, Admin, Profile, My Messages, Calender, Members, Links, Staff List, Logout"
Perhaps I have more as I am a mod and didn't know it? Let me know, and I'll stop refering to buttons people can't see. (Or perhaps Tim will expose them if they should be seen and are invisible.)
**Begin pre-emptive Moderation**
A bit of lively snarkiness is not a problem, but don't let it get out of hand, these conversations rarely go anywhere helpful, one of the reasons I was pleased to show mcfion down to the SW area to find content answers beyond the whole "Which system" question. I'd suggest just dropping the whole "My system" conversation, but if you continue, do it in a civil manner and don't let it get out of hand.
**End moderation**
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In general I dislike destroying post, cuz DAMN, I like the sound of my own voice... ;)
lynn
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Removed text so as to illiminate a distraction from the thread.
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mcfion
As a side note to my previous post regarding RMFRP etc..
How much time are you planning on commiting to playing? It occurred to me after a day or so that I am currently preparing to run a RM2 weekend, although I usually run RMSS/RMFRP. RMFRP is a bulkier system than RM2 or Classic ro whatever. Mostly in Character Creation & Leveling up. I much prefer it personally, but time is often precious and it could be a deciding factor....
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Guys.... you showed the options very well, so don't fight over it =)
And a sugestion: somebody could edit this topic into an text like "Some directions the RM system to you", it really would help beginer's like me =)
About time: my group play every friday night with two campaings intercalated (i'm a player on both campaings that are running). One of these campaings is near the end, so i will assume the GM position in the next game... I'm planning to run a long term campaing and now asked the rule advocate player of our table to read this topic and help me choose the RM system (and made it clearly to stay away frow any SW book he encounters =P)
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Bruce is the CEO of ICE, he's around here from time to time.
If you hit "Staff List" second item from the right on the top navigation bar below the black banner, you can see him, and all the other folks that "work" around here.
LM, I can't figure out what you're talking about here. The navigation bar at the top is Home-Help-Search-Profile-etc. Don't see any Staff List, where is it at?
That would be because I had not given everybody permission to actually see it yet. I have now.
Strange, If that list was people who "worked" aroun d here, it should include a couple of extra names ...
Some day ...
:)
Actually, it is the list of those who work the forums (Admins, Global Mods, and Local Mods).
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Cool
I would use RMFRP then. Its actually an easier system to use, but a little chunky for bang and flash adventuring. The TPs make it easy to create a very wide range of characters, or similar characters (ie 2 fighters) with different skills. As I metioned before, the commitment of time in Character Creation & Leveling up is the only drawback...but when you've had as many characters as I have die, creation gets easy... ???
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but when you've had as many characters as I have die, creation gets easy...
Now THAT'S the truth.
lynn
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Their is a Cuthlhu statment "Death is only the begining" and in most fantasy games it is a fact.
MDC
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Or as a friend of mine said - another character with similar skills as the last. Hence Fenlarion IV, the Incredibly Unlucky.
Sometimes Rolemaster seems more like a complicated skill based Paranoia game.
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LOL
Yah, thats why when we first started playing some 12 years ago we used to consider ourselves a little sadistic....cuz we'd come to a session prepared to die. The GM (me) would usually have a spare character or something available......a good way to get people to try some peripheral professions by the by...
Cheers
James
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Ah yes, my barbarian sidekick, Bimbo the Barbarian...II...III...IV...memories ;D
lynn
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Ah yes, my barbarian sidekick, Bimbo the Barbarian...II...III...IV...memories ;D
lynn
Bimbo the Barbarian? What was she, someone who wore a buckskin bikini that showed an aweful lot of leg and strangely looked like Christy Brinkley?
:D
Lynn, you've just won your 16th Laugh Point.
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I had characters who adventured their whole lives looking for a woman like her ;)
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If you have contact information regarding any Brazilian publishers. You could always share it with ICE. ;D
Did you got my PM with this info?
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Concerning the choice between RMC and RMFRP:
- RMRFP has currently more supplements
- RMC has currently only the 3 base books available, but I guess most of ICE's resources will support to this version in the next year and not RMFRP.
I'm new to Rolemaster as well, and I am a bit confused concerning the products. Are both RMFRP and RMC going to continue to be supported, or is RMC replacing RMFRP?
Also can the Pulp and Black Ops products be used with RMC or just FMFRP since it is an improvement on the RMSS?
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At this time, its likely that both branches will continue to be supported... RMFRP is the latest edition, while RMC is revised/expanded/reprinted RM2, or "fan service" depending on your point of view. As for Pulp and Black Ops, they are for RMSS/FRP. They probably could be converted manually to RMC if you really want, but I would not necessarily recommend that to a new GM. Juggling different editions of rules is not necessarily a good thing unless you have a lot of experience.
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Juggling different editions of rules is not necessarily a good thing unless you have a lot of experience.
Roger that, thanks for the reply. I picked up my copy of RMFRP today. I figure I"ll start there.
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Or as a friend of mine said - another character with similar skills as the last. Hence Fenlarion IV, the Incredibly Unlucky.
Sometimes Rolemaster seems more like a complicated skill based Paranoia game.
Now that's funny. I wonder what a SM:Paranoia game would be like?
-shnar
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exceptionally leathal
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But easy - just switch the attack with the fumble tables. ;D
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I bet there'd be special crit charts, like Computer Reaction Criticals and the like...
-shnar
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Paranioa Plasma Crit Table;
A: 01-05 Vital piece of R&D gear is destroyed. Explain this to the Computer, traitor! If only personal gear is carried, then head is vaporized, proving youre a traitor since only traitors fail in their mission.
A: 06-00 You are vaporized. Call in the clones.
B-E Plasma Crits: you do not have the clearance to reference these columns. A Vulture squadron is being dispatched post hast to dispatch you post haste. DIE COMMIE TRAITOR!
Man I loved that game.
lynn