Topic: First Time Look at HARP

[drsmitty]

Hello.   I am new to this forum, and am considering looking at HARP.  I realize this question may have come up time and time again by newbies like myself, but I would greatly appreciate some feedback on what HARP fans think is great about this system, and an honest assessment of its weaknesses or limitations.  Note that I am an old Role Master fan from the late 80s, but haven?t used that system in years.  More recently I have run a Harn campaign, using the Harnmaster system, which in many ways I think may be the most elegant and consistent FRP system I have seen to date.  That being said, I don?t think I have ever had as much fun as I did GMing Rolemaster back in the day.  In my experience, nothing has ever matched the gaming excitement that is generated when throwing an open-ended critical success to get out of a seemingly impossible situation.  Also, I?m wondering if HARP might be a good system to introduce my 13 year old daughter to the wonderful world of FRP gaming.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

In case you do not have it yet, you can download HARP Lite for free from http://www.ironcrown.com/free_downloads/3000L_HarpLite.pdf

And if you are not aware of, ICE has reworked and re-issued RM2 as Rolemaster Classic, and even provided an introductory product, Rolemaster Express for easing folks into it.

[John Duffield]

Funny you should ask that - I just started a HARP Campaign with my 13 year old daughter and three of her friends (all girls, all dancers) - they love the system and are finding it easy to play.

I am an old RM2 player (have all the books now that I found my last missing box from a move) and have also found HARP very enjoyable to GM.

[drsmitty]

Is HARP portable to Rolemaster Classic?  Can you start with HARP, and then add elements of RMC?

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Is HARP portable to Rolemaster Classic?  Can you start with HARP, and then add elements of RMC?

With a bit of difficulty that varies depending on what you are wanting to port. HARP and RMC are both based off some of the same core concepts, but HARP took those concepts and rebuilt them from the ground up, so there are a number of differences.

HARP is a bit more high action and cinematic (but not fully so) than RMC.

However, there ARE many on these messageboards who would likely be very very helpful in converting things for you.

[black flag]

Honestly HARP is a fresh and exiting game; I'm a old player too (since 1986) and with my pals we play together since 1990 and after being bored by D&D and his "too powerful PC and too long combat situations" we have trying HARP (a gift from my wife) and...BANG we have loved truly this game: flexibility, simple rules (for my old brain ), very fast and terrific combats (with HACK'N'Slash), a magic system very smart (and dangerous: spellcasters are not gods at high levels not like D&D); balance between professions...
Try HARP.
From Seb a french HARP fan

[drsmitty]

OK, I think I'm almost convinced.

Is there anything I can't do in HARP that I could do in RMC game mechanics wise?  I would hate to spend a lot of time and $$$$ on HARP only to find myself feeling sort of limited and restricted.

Also, now that the RMC is out, and RM-X is apparently at least being discussed, will ICE continue to publish new HARP material?

[black flag]

The advantage of HARP/ RM is the true flexibility of rules and the professions; the professions aren't jails where your creativity lies.
With the system of magic of HARP you don't have 3000 spells like in RM.
The choice of game is up to You. Some prefer RM some HARP. I know that you know it: my choice is clear: HARP.
You can truly play with only the base book to feeling if you are in tune with this game (a complete bestiary, complete magic, equipment list, magical herbs, councels to masters, and so, and so...
For the new material, the staff of creators can answer better that me to You.
But I know that they want edit a book on the evil forces and evil spell casters, called "Something Wicked" but in 2008 apparently (beginning, end?).
The game is complete at large:
- base book
- Monsters: a field guide: a good bestiary (animals, undead and their powers, demons, fiends, and others critters...)
- College of Magic: rules to create Spells/magical items/rituals/runes, new spell casters (elementalist, thaumaturge, necromancer, vivamancer)...
- Grimoire: more and more spells for several mages professions
- Harper's bazaar (1 through 10): more little rules/options, races, professions (paladins, beastmaster), magic items, elementals, spirits with shamans... Harper's are compilated in "Annual Bazaar" (1 to 6
- Harper's codex: 4 new professions (adventurer, mystic, shadowblade, druid), more spells...
- Hack'N'Slash: a new system for combats (I love it) ultra/mega/horrendous
- martial law: new armours, weapons, wound descriptions, skills and talents related to combats.
It's all my books and we play very fun RPG evenings.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Is there anything I can't do in HARP that I could do in RMC game mechanics wise?  I would hate to spend a lot of time and $$$$ on HARP only to find myself feeling sort of limited and restricted.

Actually, there are things you can do in HARP that you cannot do in RM. HARP was designed to be more flexible overall. However, some of the flexibility was gotten through a trade-off in detail.

So, which system you want to get will depend upon whether you prefer a bit more detail over a bit more flexibility (most things can easily be ported between systems without too much hassle at all).

Also, now that the RMC is out, and RM-X is apparently at least being discussed, will ICE continue to publish new HARP material?

RM-X has been under discussion, off and on, for several years now. However, it will be several years more be ICE will be able to actually do a revision of the rules and create a whole new version at the very least (note: RMSS/FRP is 12 years old' RM2/RMC is now over 25 years old).

[drsmitty]

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.  I like the sound of more flexible less detail.  In my last campaign I used another system dedicated to "realism" and whose fan base tends to be quite enamored of details and academic minutia about medieval economies, farming patterns, the speed of caravan routes, etc.  Nothing wrong with that, of course, and I actually find that stuff interesting, but along the way I got too caught up in the details and gaming stopped being fun.  I really want to reclaim the fun and "fantasy" of FRP, and see the excitement in players when they pull something off you could only see done in the movies... 

I have picked up the .pdf of HARP and am reading through it.  I will probably pony up for the whole set of books here shortly...at the expense of my kids' college fund...

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Ahh... a Harniac!!  I love the Harn setting, but not the Harnmaster rules. I even have a RMSS/FRP conversion for the Shek-P'var sitting on my hard drive (it used to be on an older version of my website)

 

[drsmitty]

You cannot but admire the detail of the Harn setting, or the dedication and sophistication of the fan-base to its development.  In some cases they have entire kingdoms mapped out and docuemnted down to details about every single minor fief.  If gritty low fantasy worlds are what your looking for, I don't know that it can be beat.

[Willen]

Thread hijack: I keep hearing about Harn but never saw anything about it here in Argentina. I would like to learn about the setting. Where can I begin? Are there any PDFs you would recomend (if available)?

Now, return to the scheduled thread

[Right Wing Wacko]

A long time ago...
I had purchased a HARN product that had beautiful, detailed maps of a fantasy England. The product was more a campaign-style book because it contained info and no rules...

Anyway, the maps were excellent and the detail given was extraordinary.
 

[drsmitty]

Thread hijack: I keep hearing about Harn but never saw anything about it here in Argentina. I would like to learn about the setting. Where can I begin? Are there any PDFs you would recomend (if available)?

Willen,
I will e-mail you some information to the address listed under you profile.

[Willen]

Thanks drsmitty. Much appreciated 

Oh, and BTW, HARP is a multiple-tentacled-armed enthusiatic thumbs-up!! I gave my group the joy of roleplaying back. It's fast, cool, flexible and elegant. College of Magics is a great addition to an already great spell system without being overwhelming, and IMO Martial Law is also great to expand your combat options (localized crits with an aditional roll? Way to go!!)

Please share with us how it goes. I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as I do. And I also encourage to participate in these forums, people here helps make HARP an even better product.

[drsmitty]

OK, took the plunge and ordered just about all the HARP books.  I'm sure I will have many questions very soon...

Now to go take out a second mortgage on the house to pay for all this... 

[Thos]

You made a good choice! Bravo! Money is just paper, but good RPG memories last a lifetime! lol

[Witchking20k]

I just ran my first session of HARP on Monday.  So, I think I can give you some quality input while its fresh in my mind.

Character Creation:  Fun & fast.  Similar enough to RM that experienced players won't need help, but different enough that they know its a different game.  Racial bloodlines, abilities, and purchasable talents promise that no two characters will be the same.

Combat:  A much less chart heavy, but equally pleasing revision of RMs combat system.  Still deadly & tactical, but much faster for players & GMs.  My players also liked the standard combat actions such as dodge, disarm foe & Holding at Bay that a player can use without developing more skills.  The armor system is very cool!

Spells & Spell Casting:  This is where I fell in love with the game.  A much revised and simplified dice rolling experience.  Spell Casting has become much more skill based & is expansive allowing your players to develop spells as they wish, & improve on the effects of existing spells.  The RR & spell attack system is streamlined & efficient.

Skills & Maneuvers: Way less skills that do more.  The only extra skills that you may need to create are setting specific like lores & crafts IMO.  The dice rolling is essentially the same as RM, but clear skill vs. skill rules have been added (so perception vs stalk & hide) & aided skill rolls have been developed (lock lore aid & lock picking).  And the skills have been developed to outline exactly what they can do (there are charts for how far you can jump, etc).

The GM experience:  I ran a four hour session using the maneuver table, 2 dice, and the 8 combat charts.  Minimal flipping, minimal fuss.  The players stayed engaged for longer.

The sections on Herbs, treasure & monsters are thouroughly thought out and allow you to run a pretty decent game on just the core book.  I enjoy the monster descriptions particularly becaase they include things like a Perception bonus.

Over all.  A very player & GM friendly game that is smooth of system & mechanics, but offers huge amounts of character freedom without the heavy-ness of RM.
 

[Alwyn]

I have been running HARP for two years now and have found the system to be first rate.  My players have been able to design the type of characters they want rather being forced to fit a particular class "cookie-cutter" mold. 

I also really like the magic system and the ability to scale the individual spells.  With the addition of Martial Law for combat, which really adds a lot to the game, you get specific injuries based on the location hit and damage reduction for armor (in general or by location if you wish).

One thing that I really like about HARP is how well each profession, racial type, and the abilities all balance out as the characters develop.  Each special ability (race, talents, etc.), skills, and spells costs points to develop, which helps maintain a level playing field for the players.  No one type or profession will dominate the game. 

Our group has found HARP to be a good game, much better than D&D, but less cumbersome than Role Master.