Topic: Do you think that D&D 4th Edition will be a good thing for H.A.R.P.?

[Thom @ ICE]

Have to disagree with you on this one.  GMs are subject to their players.  Sure a GM can say, "This is my game, either you play my way or find someone else to GM your game." but most of us would like to work with the players to make the game enjoyable for all.  If the published rules (and companions, accessories, etc.) support a gaming experience that is not enjoyable and the group insists on using that system - then the system can be at fault.

That's why it is so important for GM's and Players to realize that other systems exist which offer better gaming experiences and hopefully allow these gamers to continue with their hobby in an enjoyable manner.   Note that many good GMs can get stuck using bad systems and produce bad experiences.

[Zhaleskra]

Same concept, different sides of the coin. A GM should know what he is comfortable running: system, style of play, etc. and seek players who match or at least approximate. GMs are not players' doormats!

How is it D&D's fault that certain DMs only give XP for combat? IT ISN'T!

[Thom @ ICE]

You must be one of those lucky people with a very large supply of gamers to select from.  During my early gaming days I had 2 groups of friends who gamed. One refused to play anything but D&D and played it by the rules. If I wanted to GM I had to play by the official rules or find another game.   The other group played Runequest, which at that time I didn't enjoy because of a bad GM (GM vs. Players). Funny thing was that I did buy a copy of Arms Law when it first came out, but no one wanted to use it

I stuck with D&D and for many years played it as written. Then later when face to face gaming became even less available, I went to the internet and have been playing PBEM/PBP for about 18 years now.  I played D&D back then and generally followed the book, but as D&D went to d20 I tried to follow and found it was not what I wanted. I convinced (forced) my gaming group to switch to HARP (many of whom are very active internet gamers and support ICE). I have also found far greater freedom with the ICE systems (especially HARP), but the fact that for years I was forced to play a game that did not work 100% for me by my players remains.  You can always change the rules, but only if your players go along with it and trying to be that selective over face to face gamers is not always easy.

[Dr_Sage]

How is it D&D's fault that certain DMs only give XP for combat? IT ISN'T!

Its partialy their fault indeed, becuse the whole DM Guide induces you to do so. (There is a not somewhere saying "ok, you can give like 50XP for a good roleplay"  ).

And DnD has a very important issue: 3.5 is very well balanced (at least from 1-12 level), and obviosly was a great mathematical endeavour. Many options even for the regular Fighter and they are all balanced among thenselves.

So where is the problem?

You simple can?t mess up with anything without screwing something else up. Believe me on this one.
Want to reduce "Power Atack Feat" effectiveness? You just made "Monkey Grip Feat" much more powerfull.

This way I saw some DnD DM friends regreting they messed with the rules, and making the players unhappy once they realised "how unfair was for then".

Our last long DnD campaign was from level 1st to 9th, and was amazing. But the DM decided that he would not give treasure like the books say so "magic itens should be very rare". He regreted so badly, becuse the whole Chalenge Rating game balance went out of the window and he was having many problems to balance things up again so he just gave up and the campaign was over.
He is an amazing guy and a very solid DM, but the frustration overhelmed him (and us).

[Zhaleskra]

(There is a not somewhere saying "ok, you can give like 50XP for a good roleplay"  ).

No more than 50 XP/level for good roleplay.

There are also notes on "Story Rewards".

It seems that the older I get and no matter what "fixes" and "uber coolness" is added, the less sense D&D makes. Sometimes I wonder how I could maintain the cognitive dissonance to force myself to think it wasn't complex.

[Blakkrall]

Voted "Who cares".
Harp and D&D are definitly two differents games for two differents ways of playing.
No side to choose. It's not a fight for survive. BTW, one side seems bigger than the other*... (yes, I know, David & Goliath, but do Razyr own a sling ? )

*sorry, but that's what it looks like from my side of The Great See...

[heruca]

There are other virtual tabletops out there that I'd like to try, and the only reason I can't is that neither of my computers have all of the system requirements.

Really? Can you point me some directions? The only one I have tested is OpenRPG, but is was kinda bugged badly.

You can find links to all the virtual tabletop programs here. Believe it or not, there are now close to 40 such programs.

[Crypt]

I've tried OpenRPG too and in addition to not liking programs that you have to download other programs to run, I found it quite difficult to make even a fill-in sheet that looked good and didn't crash the program let alone a calculated one.

RPGnow has a couple that interest me:
Fantasy Grounds: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=16718&it=1

ScreenMonkey: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=16718&it=1

if you can read some french menus, try Rolistik:
http://rolistik.free.fr/

free, friendly and effective.

[heruca]

Thanks for the link, Crypt. Always nice to hear about a new virtual tabletop program.

[Zhaleskra]

You must be one of those lucky people with a very large supply of gamers to select from.

I suppose I am; I don't just live in a "college town", I live in a "multiple college town". There are like 5 colleges in one city; officially 4, but the 5th is close enough to the border to not really count as being in the next city. And then there are a few more colleges not that far away. Finally, we got TWO new game stores this year.

if you can read some french menus, try Rolistik:
http://rolistik.free.fr/

free, friendly and effective.

Thanks, I may give it a try but I've definitely burned out on play by post.

[mocking bird]

This really has nothing to do with anything but I thought I would put it here.  Following is a note from my stiggybaby weekly mailer I get.  FYI - it did highlight HARP a few months ago.

Well, lets start with my all favorite DOG of the Week.  This one comes from our friends at Wizards of the Coast, who have endeared themselves to us by stopping 3.5 and going into 4th edition.  As if to say what the hell, they have released Dungeons & Dragons Rules Compendium HC. So they aren't going to support this line, but here buy this product that covers all the rules we aren't using any more.  If I didn't feel that it was improper for me to curse I'd say what the F$@#*. 

Yours for only $26.95.

[black flag]

Voted "Who cares".
Harp and D&D are definitly two differents games for two differents ways of playing.
No side to choose. It's not a fight for survive. BTW, one side seems bigger than the other*... (yes, I know, David & Goliath, but do Razyr own a sling ? )

*sorry, but that's what it looks like from my side of The Great See...

Agree with You, two games: two different Roleplaying approachs.