Topic: RM2 -> HARP Stat bonuses...

[GoblynByte]

If I understand it correctly, HARP stat bonuses are more in scale with RMSS than with RM2.  How whould I scale RM2 stat bonuses to match HARP?

[Marc R]

Are you trying to scale final bonuses, or stats to bonuses?

[munchy]

Can't you just compare the tables that give the stat bonuses?

Or just use the stat bonuses from HARP, and add them up, this should give almost the same probably a bit better bonus than the summing and dividing stuff in RM2 does.

[allenrmaher]

RMC/2 stats progress at nearly 2 to 1 compared to HARP, mind you HARP will double the amount of bonus and apply it to a stat manoeuvre while RMC/2 will use the straight bonus.  Likewise  with DB Qu is doubled in HARP but not in RMC/2.

With Skills RMC/2 average stat bonuses while HARP adds the two, resulting in the same effective range of bonuses.

[Marc R]

It sounds like you're attempting to convert something, could you offer more detail? (as you can see, there are a lot of possible answers. . .a detailed question will give a clearer reply.)

[GoblynByte]

  Wow.  Well, I'm trying to translate old characters, races, and monsters from RM2/MERP materials to HARP and just wanted a basic idea of how to convert stat bonuses for races.  I figured with that everything else would more or less fall into place.  It sounds like it really would even out in the end, but, for instance, how would I translate the ST bonus for Dwarves from RM2 to HARP?  I realize that a dwarf is a dwarf and I can use the HARP dwarf ignoring the RM2 Dwarf, but knowing how the scale would translate would also have greater use in other areas as well.

It sounds that to translate characters (without worrying about the contributing bonuses) the skills will more or less translate evenly due to the way stat bonuses are douibled in HARP.  But what about other bonuses?  Would a +10 sword in RM2 be a +10 sword in HARP and still keep generally the same balance (i.e. not result in grossly overpowered results on the crit charts)?

I hope all this makes sense.  Any help is welcome.  Thanks much!!

[allenrmaher]

THe core mechanic {d100} and difficulty scale are identical, and the resolution methods are very similar so item bonuses would be on the same scale.  The diminishing returns from skills is universal to MERP/RM/HARP and so they interchange pretty well.

Spells not so much... spell lists to scaled spells is a big jump.  Background options to talents look like more of a pain.

Racial bonuses and penalties in RMC/2 are fairly steep compared to HARP, mind you they are offset by penalties more than HARP... RMC/2 races tend to make some professions much less or more desirable.  This is less true in HARP.

[GoblynByte]

Hmmm...in regards to spells, would you say HARP is more overpowered or underpowered compaired to RM2/C/MERP?

[pemerton]

THe core mechanic {d100} and difficulty scale are identical, and the resolution methods are very similar so item bonuses would be on the same scale. 

This is probably true for a +10 item, but I'd be careful about stronger items.

In RM, no matter how high the attack roll, it cannot be fatal without a lucky crit result. So even a +70 item (and there are plenty of these around in MERP) is not a guaranteed death-dealer.

In HARP, on the other hand, there is no separate crit roll. Any Medium weapon (with Power Strike) or Large weapon can deal a death result on a good enough attack roll, and a +70 item goes a long way to guaranteeing that attack roll.

Hmmm...in regards to spells, would you say HARP is more overpowered or underpowered compaired to RM2/C/MERP?

Some individual HARP spells are stronger than their RM equivalents (eg Air Form, Water Form, Fire Nerves, Sleep, Major Healing, probably Fly as well). But most are probably weaker, because of the skill ranks required to scale to powerful effects, and the impact of scaling penalties on attack results and likelihood of success.

There are few spells in HARP, even with high-level scaling, that compare to the RM 'E' picks.

[allenrmaher]

In RM, no matter how high the attack roll, it cannot be fatal without a lucky crit result. So even a +70 item (and there are plenty of these around in MERP) is not a guaranteed death-dealer.

Forgot about those... there are a couple in HARP that give bonuses of +40 to +50 or so...(edit: well the spear of dragon slaying while in the book is a +10 /+50 in the old forums there was a suggestion that the RR was too low and a RR of 200 was suggested by one of the powers that be... should have checked my facts before I posted.) but they are specific to very lethal creatures.

If you handed out a +25 general and +75 to a specific target it would not unbalance the game and be no worse than the vulnerabilities in HARP  (a +50 over a bonus V item)

[allenrmaher]

I went looking in Treasures of Middle Earth for +70 weapons... most of them were relics and specific weapons for kings and legendary heroes of the first age.  (there were a couple +90 too)  Most of the Fellowship was in the +20 to +30 range... Saurons sword was a +45.  So HARP weapons are not so bad as all that.  And by the time you start handing out +70 items you are kicking Balrog arse anyway.

[Marc R]

I could be mistaken, but I think GBs question was "If a RM2 race has a racial stat bonus of +20, what is the equivalent HARP racial stat bonus"

Or more genericly, are the bonuses 1/2, 1/3 or some more esoteric conversion.

I'm not sure enough of the conversions to answer that one.

[allenrmaher]

Here the bonuses are fairly different,  for example in RMC/2

Stat	RMC/2	HARP
St	+5	+2
Qu	-5	0
Pr	-10	0
In	0
Em	-10	-
Co	+15	+5
Ag	-5	0
SD	+5	+4
Me	0	-
Re	0	0
Total	-5	+11

       

When you take into account the doubling factor, the HARP ones tend to be one +4 one +8, and one +10... however there are no penalties.  It won't ever work out as a 1 to 1 (or even close)  similar stats get the boost, but not as much and there are few penalties.

I would just opt for the racial stats of the system and not worry about the differences, there are different sets of checks and balances on the races between the two systems.

[GoblynByte]

I noticed this last part last night when I was comparing both books.  And I was looking for a sort of magic formula that would convert the two, but I see now that this is problamatic at best.  Not that my plans are sunk.  I can just as easily guestimate the stats with what I know of the races and such.

And the issues of balance, I think, will even out in the end.  Since in most cases of ME personalities the designers were giving them skill levels as they saw appropriate.  A change of 20 or 30 in a skill (up or down) won't mean I've done the character wrong or anything.  So I'll just eyeball it.

Thanks for the input, all! 

[jasonbrisbane]

Hello goblinbyte,

I found that for HARP, the book Monsters: A Field Guide (M:AFG) is mandatory for converting ANYTHING to HARP.

I used it to create a spreadsheet that I use to create a Level X creature/character of Race Y.
(Of course the racial bonuses you still have to work out, so you'd be stuck in the same position you are now.)

The great thing is that M:AFG has the details on how to create a race of a certain power. (i.e. the total stat bonuses for a Creature of "Type 1" is x, "Type 2" is y, etc). It makes a fantastic basis to create a race based upon the power level of other creatures in the game and keep it all a Level Playing field. (no pun intended).

Hope that helps.

[Falenthal]

This is an old topic, but I think it's the right place to post my questions.
I'm new to HARP, as my experience has been mostly in MERP and RM for some years. I found HARP a perfect balance between playability and realism and intend to continue my Middle-Earth campaigns with this system.
And here's my concern: How adaptable is the material I've got for MERP to the HARP rules?

From what I've seen, there should be no problem with skill tests (locks difficulties, perception tests, etc).
I also don't fear the magic conversion, as I don't use lots of magic in my Middle-Earth adventures. I'll just make available to the NPCs or PCs the scaled spells more similar to their former spell lists.

Buy I'm having problems figuring how to adapt de OB, DB and Hit Points, specially from the NPC charts included in the MERP modules.
The question is: is there a way to "transform" the OB, DB and Hits from the MERP NPCs to HARP?
I've seen that by doubling the OB and Hits, and adding the DB bonus for the armour wearing to the normal DB, a MERP NPC ressembles a HARP NPC. Is that correct? Would it work for all levels or only for the firsts ones?

And, by the way, is there any Middle Earth adaptation for the HARP rules? Races, magic limitations, Corruption/Shadow rules,...
I'm doing my own, buy I still lack the experience in HARP and would like to see others. If anyone is interested in mine, I can post the GoogleDocs link... only it's in spanish! If someones interested, maybe I can translate it to english.

Thanks and greetings from Spain!