Author Topic: High Adventure Combat  (Read 3152 times)

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Offline Thom @ ICE

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High Adventure Combat
« on: August 13, 2013, 02:20:50 PM »
Just playing with some numbers, and after reading some feedback about RM, I wanted to see what people thought about frequency of hit, criticals (bleed/stun/penalties), and injuries (including immediate and pending death). 

The poll assumes both attacker and defender are of equivalent levels in every aspect.

During combat, what % breakdown would best fit a High Adventure RPG experience?
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Offline dagorhir

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 02:52:24 PM »
My answer assume fairly equivalent combatants, and mostly applies to RM.

Harp has often given me situations where if the character doesn't fumble, he hits because OB is greater than the target's DB. This sort'a skews the statistics of sorts, but it certainly makes for rather heroic battle where the characters go through large numbers of foes quickly.

Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 03:11:01 PM »
I'm just trying to get a feel for whether people in High Adventure combat want frequent hits or balanced mix between hits and misses, and if there are frequent hits should the criticals and/or injuries be as frequent as the concussion only damage, should they be less frequent (increasing the excitement of that shot that tears off the guys arm) or should they be more frequent (high blood and gore - for PCs as well as NPCs).
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Offline dagorhir

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 04:42:48 PM »
I like a little bit of both actually, when it fits the story. It is always good to have characters thrash through a bunch of opponents while having a harder time in a more climactic battle.

Criticals can sometimes be a little anti-climatic because they can end a fight much to quickly by generating a killing blow in the first few rounds. But concussions damage tends to drag the fight on for ever and ever.

It is always difficult to get a good balance with RM. It's a bit less tricky with Harp. My answer goes in line with what I generally strive for in my games.

Offline pyrotech

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 05:47:45 PM »
I voted for the 40% miss option.  I feel against a evenly matched foe you should hit almost as often as you miss, but missing just isn't as fun and exciting so should be a bit less likely.

And as for the anti-climatic critical, In my gaming experience these can often be far from anti-climatic.  In one game I ran the PCs encountered the campaign ending big fight against their long standing nemesis.  The enemy was far more powerful than any of them, prepared, invisible, flying, and casting instant death spells at the PCs.  The fight went 2 rounds, round 1 bad guy cast instant death spell on party member, party member resists partially and bleeds from his pores - the party starts to look for the bad guy.  Round 2 the bad guy cast instant death spell on PC member, PC resists partially - his heart momentarily stops but returns to beating - another PC crits his perception roll and finds where the caster is, crits his attack, rolls location (head shot). 

Rather than fudge it to make the fight drag out longer I just let it go.  The player shouted, laughed, and cheered for a half hour afterwords.  We wrapped that game up early it is true, but we had plenty of fun anyway.  They still talk about that fight to this day.  I suspect GMs are more let down by these kinds of "anti-climatic" fights than most players are.

On the other hand, I do tend to avoid instant death effects in most games to avoid this issue against the PCs.  The above example was an exception that made the fight stand out all the more.  When the PCs know that instant death attacks are rare but start seeing them, they typically react dramatically.  When instant death attacks are just uncommon, they tend to consider them inevitable.

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Offline dagorhir

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 07:02:22 PM »
In my case, the PCs find the bad guy's lair (Wererat). In the first round, the fighter PC declares a full out melee attack with two weapons and wins initiative. One attack doesn't count because his weapon isn't magical, but rolls a B Piercing critical on the attack with his magical sword killing the wererat in the first round before the wererat gets a chance to act.

The final battle ended. Players weren't impressed with that foe at all. Those are the anti-climatic killing blows that I prefer to avoid.

Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 08:19:33 PM »
I put down 40/20/20/20, but what I'd actually like to see is more 40/30/20/10.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
Oo Ee Oo Aa Aa, Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang... Traditional Verbal Components
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 08:21:47 PM »
Funny you should say that..... I was just about to edit the poll to add that based upon the other comments.  Since it's early, I'm going to reset the poll and add that one.
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 08:23:47 PM »
Poll has been reset....  Sorry, but I'm hoping the new option may better fit some interests.
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Offline GrumpyOldFart

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2013, 08:59:13 PM »
Well, it fit mine.  8)

As far as my reasoning behind increasing rarity proportional to increased effect, it's just thinking about how people act: The more rare a thing is, the more highly it's valued.
You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out... Traditional Somatic Components
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Offline pyrotech

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2013, 12:03:58 AM »
I too almost made the 40/30/20/10 recommendation because it was more of what I would prefer.  So your adding it to the choices isn't hurting my feelings.

Now off to bed to get ready for a drive to Indy tomorrow.

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Offline Luxferre

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2013, 01:45:35 AM »
I cant answer the poll, because I would prefer:

less hits, more damage, more injuries

A little bit like Harnmaster. If you hit, you hit hard. If the opponent is injured, he faces serious consequences.
But this is not high-adventure ;) Thats why I didnt vote.
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2013, 05:26:16 AM »
Understood about you not considering your selection High Adventure, and therefore holding your vote.

Could you vote on whichever one you feel would best fit High Adventure? Even if it isn't your preferred combat style.

By the way, for what you described, I would go with the 50/10/15/25
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Offline Falenthal

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2013, 06:47:51 AM »
I voted for "50% miss, 25% concussion, 15% criticals, 10% injuries".

In combat with equivalent foes, i think that defenses should work half of the time. Therefore 50% misses.
As for impacts, I like mortal or near mortal to be possible, but rare. Then some abilities like Power Strike and the like become more useful and priced.

Offline Luxferre

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2013, 09:20:11 AM »
Understood about you not considering your selection High Adventure, and therefore holding your vote.

Could you vote on whichever one you feel would best fit High Adventure? Even if it isn't your preferred combat style.

By the way, for what you described, I would go with the 50/10/15/25

Considering my opinion on high fantasy adventuring, your choice is also mine. Voted ;)
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2013, 09:51:37 AM »
IMHO this is not the best way to ask. Instead it would IMO make more sense to compare to existing systems, like RM combat, HARP's Hack&Slash, HARP's default combat system etc. The current way I don't think you will be getting a result that really tells you how to set the numbers for % of misses, concussion hits etc.

Just my 2 cents

Offline jdale

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2013, 10:49:08 AM »
The breakdown will also depend on Parrying. If both combatants full parry, I expect mostly misses. If both combatants all-out-attack, I expect criticals and injuries.

That said, assuming an intermediate stance by both combatants, I went with 40% miss, 30% concussion, 20% criticals, 10% injuries.
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Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 11:20:14 AM »
jdale - Understood - I had to phrase it for one general model, which as you assumed it would be, an intermediate balanced stance by both.  Clearly higher aggressive attacks will increase the type of damage done, and similarly a more defensive position would weaken the type and amount of damage done.

Ecth - I actually disagree. The data provides good insight into how the crit charts should best be structured along with a multi-variable data analysis.  It has proven to be a great help so far, but I'm still looking for more results - so keep voting!
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Offline Ecthelion

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2013, 05:59:57 AM »
The data provides good insight into how the crit charts should best be structured along with a multi-variable data analysis.  It has proven to be a great help so far, but I'm still looking for more results - so keep voting!
If the data correctly represents the needs of the players and GMs, then it will indeed provide good insight. I do not deny this. But I doubt that people are really able to determine, from the raw numbers you present, which frequency of misses, crits etc. would really be the one that would bring them the most fun in the game. Therefore I fear the data you collect might be misleading.

Offline Thom @ ICE

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Re: High Adventure Combat
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2013, 06:50:37 AM »
That is possible, but then again I've indicated that this is just for something I am playing around with, and long before anything is considered for release it will have gone through a detailed review with GCP and many hours of playtesting.   What looks good on paper doesn't always work well in game play... I'd rather take a bit longer on development and testing and be able to stand behind a quality product than release whatever comes to mind, with multiple optional variations following.
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