Topic: lighter armor design and Maneuver Penalty

[Dirz]

In RMC, on Table 08-04 is stated that a heavyer design (for everything, but now I'll focus on armor) gives a bonus but also a malus to MM.

It's absolutely clear, an heavyer armor will protect more (is more bulky) but will be more difficult to maneuver in.

On the other side, Table 08-03 states that lighter materials and designs, give only a minor weight.
Did anybody developed an extended table giving a bonus to MM and QU penaltyes, for lighter designs?

In my idea, at the limit of having an armor weighting 0% of the original (due to material and design), means that I'm wearing something that is like a silk cloth ... will a silk cloth give me a malus to QU or to MM? I don't think so!

In this way I cound createa "mithril giaco" (AT 13) like the one of "Bilbo Baggins" ... wonderfull, protective, but like wearing any other cloth (ok ... I'm talking about something costing about 1500 x is original cost!!)

[PiXeL01]

I think Treasure Companion had something for magical MMs. I am not familiar with Alchemy Companion, there might be something there as well

[yammahoper]

Bilbos chain shirt would be AT 13 enchanted to enc as AT 9 or 5.

lynn

[Marc R]

A certain degree of GM restraint needs to apply to prevent over-the top weightless items becoming common.

But, take into account Yamma's point. . . AT's limit based ona a table, the only way to get them to limit less is to have them "Encumber as ATX" . . .plate mail that weighs nothing would technically still have full penalties, since armor is not handled via encumberence.

It is nice to have say a 2HD sword that weighs 1/2 normal. . . .

[DonMoody]

Also, weight is not the only problematic aspect to armour and such.
For all items, there is also bulk.
And for armour, most armour has some restricting aspect on movement.

For example ...

Imagine a full suit of plate mail - it consists of segments of various sizes, held together by joints, straps and the like.
While the articulated aspect of such armour is designed to allow movement, it does not allow complete, unlimited, unrestricted movement.
Even if it weighed virtually nothing, the armour does impose some limitations on how the wear can move the various parts of his body.

Imagine a 1 meter by 1/2 meter by 1/2 meter box that weighs less than a dagger or large knife.
Obviously, the dagger or large knife would be easier to handle and move around than that 'box of air'.
That is, almost as much as weight, the actual size of an object (i.e. how bulky it is) has a large effect on easy or difficult it is to move or carry around.

DonMoody

[Dirz]

Imagine a full suit of plate mail - it consists of segments of various sizes, held together by joints, straps and the like.
While the articulated aspect of such armour is designed to allow movement, it does not allow complete, unlimited, unrestricted movement.
Even if it weighed virtually nothing, the armour does impose some limitations on how the wear can move the various parts of his body.

You are right, but consider a weightless chain armor, it shouldn't impair movements ... and the table is entitled "WEIGHT DECREASES DUE TO MATERIAL AND DESIGN" ... and "design" can be considered as a better structured armor, even with reduced imparing movements parts.

[Marc R]

It's "weight reduction due to material and design", not "maneuver bonuses due to. . ."

I agree that you should be able to design better, less restrictive armor, but that's not what that table seems to intend (or it would offer bonuses as you say.). Not denying that you have a great point, just don't think that table really covers it.

The major bennie of 1/2 weight plate mail is when you calculate encumberence for your warhorse. . . .if you could trim the weight of the rider down enough, the horse would fly around at top speed, and not tire so fast.

[DonMoody]

Any metal armour that does not 'stretch like spandex' will cause movement restrictions (and even spandex can cause movement restrictions).

Also, unless you making your armour out of some 'super amazing material' (like that stretches-like-spandex metal) that is 'unlike anything found in RL', you are unlikely to be able to improve on the RL designs.

I agree that the major benefit of lighter armour is it weighs less.
You can walk around longer with less fatigue and, if you are riding, your mount (or animals pulling the cart/carriage you are on/in) has an easier time of it.
[But, IME, few players are ever concerned about the 'stress' on their character or their character's animals ...]

DonMoody