Topic: Shield and Missile fire

[Dirz]

Is there any kind of shield in RMC usable with a bow?
I mean, some protection to the forearm to use as a Shield when in melee, but which doesn't prevent using a bow while held.

Thanks

[Arioch]

I don't think such a shield ever existed, basically because bowmen were far away from melee and didn't have the need for a shield during battles 

[Elton Robb]

I think what you are thinking of is a bracer.  See my picture on my website thread for an example.

[DonMoody]

I don't think such a shield ever existed, basically because bowmen were far away from melee and didn't have the need for a shield during battles

Another reason this never really existed real world wise is this:
Place a 2kg (4-5#) weight in one hand.
Now hold both of your arms straight out in front of you.
Which arm can you hold out longer?
How much longer?

Bowmen use a bow by holding it out from their body (i.e. holding the weight of the bow at essentially arm's length).
If you are going to be doing that (and doing it with accuracy), you want as *little* extra weight on your bow arm as possible.

Realistically, it wasn't viabke to have a chunk of wood/metal strapped to your arm while shooting a bow (not if you wanted to shoot for very long or hit anything when you did shoot).

Another reason this never really existed real world wise is this:
Despite 'common knowledge', shields are not just tied onto the weidlers' limb.
While many (i.e. not the smallest) shields do have a strap your arm goes through, almost every shield (including bucklers) also either had a handle for your hand or another strap for your hand so you could control/maneuver the shield (e.g. so you could deflect a blow and the shield wouldn't just 'turn on your arm' if the blow landed on/near an edge).

DonMoody

[Fidoric]

I agree with you DonMoody and I even think that most archers will have only one bracer on their weapon arm and none on their shield arm (the one holding the bow) or a leather one at most, precisely for the weight problem. The light bracer helps cushioning the bow string impact against your shield arm when you release it. That's how I envision it, but I may be wrong. Maybe there are some archers among us who can make things clear ?

[Marc R]

If you had a bracer or Targe that was secured to your arm, and you trained with it, you'd be able to wear it and fire a bow, but I wouldn't allow you to use it defensively at the same time. (You kind of NEED a bracer to use a bow actually, at least if you like having skin on the inside of your wrist.)

This is akin to the same logic of wearing a targe type shield strapped to your forearm and weilding a 2hd sword. . .it's there, but you're not "using" it, so you get no bonus.

[Dirz]

That's how I meant to use it ... no DB while using bow ... but a shield ready for use in a Round (leave the bow and get the sword).

I intended it to be used this way.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

Such a shield would likely be smaller than a target shield. Let's call it a Buckler (cause it buckles on your arm). Say it provide +10 vs melee and +5 versus missile (half the stats of a target shield), and cannot be used to parry missiles like other shields (too small). I would also say that it gives a -10 to using a bow, as is makes a great wind catcher pulling off your aim.

[dutch206]

IIRC, Archers would often stand behind a row of wall shields or a similar improvised "wall" to give them partial cover while firing.  I can't think of a single occasion in which I've heard of an archer with a personal shield.  (Unless, of course, the archer has access to a "shield" spell)

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

IIRC, Archers would often stand behind a row of wall shields or a similar improvised "wall" to give them partial cover while firing.  I can't think of a single occasion in which I've heard of an archer with a personal shield.  (Unless, of course, the archer has access to a "shield" spell)

Historically, perhaps. But he is not asking about historically, he is asking about it for an archer character, a PC in a game, who sometimes doesn't have the option of standing way back from the actual combat. 

[Marc R]

In terms of the annoyance of geometry, it might actually be a better bet to try this with a crossbow than a bow, since it's less likely to get in the way (Or tire your arm through the aiming process.)

[DonMoody]

Historically, perhaps. But he is not asking about historically, he is asking about it for an archer character, a PC in a game, who sometimes doesn't have the option of standing way back from the actual combat.

And here I thought he was asking about it *realistically*, not historically.

Yeah, if you want, you can let PCs do anything they want.

But if you want to 'keep it real', no one using a bow has a shield strapped to their arm (yes, they have some inside forearm protection from the release of the bowstring).

I also think there is some confusion about bucklers and targes.
A targe common had *two* leather straps, one that went around the arm and one that was *held* by the hand of that same arm.
A buckler was a small shield, *held* with one hand (usually directly behind the center of the shield).

In both cases, these items were *held* with one hand - not items strapped onto an arm and that arm's hand being free.

The concept of the 'Look Ma - No Hands!' shield is fantasy, not reality (not even realistic fantasy).

As for crossbowmen, they used a free standing shield called a pavis (bowmen also used these).
A pavise was generally a quite large shield that would either be held by *another person* or be 'stuck' into the ground (these had a spike or spikes on the bottom of the pavise specifically so it could be stuck in the ground).
The archer then stood behind the shield, which then provided good cover.

Compare this to a mantlet, which was a small, portable shelter (sometimes no more than a large shield), often mounted on a cart or similar wheeled cariage for mobility.

I can't think of a single occasion in which I've heard of an archer with a personal shield.

Right you are sir!

DonMoody

[Fidoric]

A pavise was generally a quite large shield that would either be held by *another person* or be 'stuck' into the ground (these had a spike or spikes on the bottom of the pavise specifically so it could be stuck in the ground).

I think it is exactly the Wall Shield as described in RM.