Author Topic: Find Herbs  (Read 3703 times)

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Offline Dirz

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Find Herbs
« on: March 22, 2008, 01:18:57 PM »
What skill in RMC shall I use to find Herbs? Is there nothing like the old "Herb Lore", "Horticulture"? How do you manage Herbs finding and gathering? I won't to make an Animist, using the Optional rule for Herbs ... but I need to find them first  ;D

Offline Arioch

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 05:01:00 PM »
I think Foraging is the right skill for finding herbs
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Offline dutch206

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 05:08:39 PM »
Foraging to find it, herb lore to identify it.
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Offline Dirz

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 04:51:44 AM »
but will you develop it as a separate skill at the cost of foraging or with foraging  aplayer will be able to find Herbs, food etc?

Offline Walt

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 04:53:17 AM »
I?m using Foraging for finding food etc. And Herb Lore for finding and identifing herbs. Otherwise it becomes the skill overkill

Offline munchy

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 04:56:13 AM »
We always had a character use foraging for both, for food and herbs with only one foraging skill developed. However, you needed Herb Lore to be able to look for herbs as you should have at least some knowledge of what certain herbs you are looking for look like.
You could also use Herb Lore instead of foraging, this however would make herb lore rather powerful and for many characters take out the need to develop foraging alltogether.
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Offline Arioch

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 05:14:51 AM »
but will you develop it as a separate skill at the cost of foraging or with foraging  aplayer will be able to find Herbs, food etc?

In the SoHK (yes, it's a RMFRP book but the description of the skills is IMHO useful for any version of RM) it's said that Foraging is used to find edible plants and/or animals, so I let the skill to be used to find both herbs and food.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 09:39:16 AM »
Okay....


Finding herbs == Use Foraging skill, but only if you have knowledge of herbs (i.e. Herb Lore)

Herb Lore would most likely be "Lore: General" for Animist, Ranger, Healer, and Lay Healer, and "Lore: Obscure" or "Lore: Technical" (GM's Choice, though I would lean for Techinical) for all other professions.

Herb Lore would also be the skill needed to know how to use the Herbs properly.



Offline Fidoric

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 01:30:00 PM »
That is : you must know an herb (Herb lore) if you want to search for it (Foraging). The way I understand it, you cant't make a foraging roll to find an herb you dont't know... That seems logical.
The confusing point is that some times, Foraging includes the knowledge part :finding edible plants imply that your character know which plants are edible and which are not. Perhaps a Flora lore is required ? Perhaps Foraging includes basic knowledge of flora in a character native region ?
Funny how this thread about Herb Lore/ Foraging/... seems to reappear regularly.
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Offline yammahoper

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 03:40:11 PM »
Well, depending on what type of herb you seek, the skill streetwise may be the most appropriate. 

Many of the more mind altering types of herbs listed enjoy wide circulation in the cities.

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Offline Marc R

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2008, 11:16:37 PM »
Foraging to a degree operates off of all the other knowledge you have.

Presumptively the GM would pop a penalty if you dump your super foraging temperate winderness PC onto a tropical island on another dimension.

Certain basic rules apply (And also apply to the logic of how to test unkown substances to see if they are food) but specific knowledge would have to be limited. . .

Many skills cross index this way. . .in this instance if a character has lores relating to a reigon, it's plants, it's animals, and also foraging, that should really be taken into account in terms of bonuses/penalties and or the difficulty of the foraging roll.

Like, if said character has +100 bonus in lores on the reigon's plants, fungi, Forest Animals and Fish, I'd certainly offer them a bonus in trying to gather up a meal in that area.

Herb lore would certainly seem to make sense as the add on to make foraging herbs work.

As to streetwise. . .I dunno how many heroin addicts could recognize a poppy plant. I guess it depends on how processed the final plant is. Like if the taken version is a fresh, full mushroom, perhaps a user would then recognize it in the wild. . . .but that might be "Lore: My drug of choice" more than streetwise.

Streetwise would almost seem to be the urban foraging skill though. . .again, it often helps to have an associated lore to make certain uses of that skill.
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Offline RandalThor

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2008, 11:31:16 PM »
I would use it this way:

Herb Lore to know what you are looking for. Foraging to actually go out and find it. If you roll particularly well or particularly poorly, then modifiers to the Foraging skill will be assessed. If you suddenly remember your master's lesson on Herbs, and how this one is known to grow on the south-facing trunks of large trees, it will be a bit easier to find. Of course, if that is the memory tied to another herb, well.........
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Offline Marc R

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2008, 11:40:34 PM »
A lot of this is iffy overall. . . .unless an herb is reletively common, it's going to be tough to just forage it.

Like if you're walking willowbark, well, any place with willows will do. . .

But a specific rare plant, mushroom or tree might be almost impossible to randomly find. . .in the real world, where such things are gathered, they are often gathered, in quantity in an area where they are common. . . .and exported in trade elsewhere. . .

Wild Mushrooms are still searched for commercially, so are a decent comparisson for likely data.

You could wander the woods of the northeastern US for months and never find a single Morel Mushroom. . .but purchase a bushel in downtown manhatten. . .Truffles can be relatively easily found in the right places. . . and no amount of looking will find them in the wrong places.

So, to a degree, you might use a progression of lores:

Herb Lore to identify likely kinds of areas to find a given herb. (like, an old growth pine forest near a major river)

Reigon Lore to identify an area matching that. (The Hogun woods near the river Hoire!)

Then Foraging to search once you get to the Hogun woods.
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Offline thrud

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 02:57:55 AM »
Herb lore to identify the plant in the marketplace. To know you're not getting played.
Honest Harry just happened to have the herb in stock...

Offline Dirz

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2008, 05:17:15 AM »
Ok, I'll use this sequence:

Herb Lore - to know what to search for
Region Lore - to know the place where to find it
Foraging - to actually find the erb

...

Herb Lore again - if there is any need for preparation.

Thanks

Offline Arioch

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2008, 05:51:58 AM »
Ok, I'll use this sequence:

Herb Lore - to know what to search for
Region Lore - to know the place where to find it
Foraging - to actually find the erb

...

Herb Lore again - if there is any need for preparation.

Thanks


I suggest you to limit the number of rolls done, to avoid bogging down the flow of the game. Two rolls (one on Herb Lore to identify the herb and one on Foraging or Region Lore to find it) are IMHO more than enough.
I suppose a magician might, he admitted, but a gentleman never could.

Offline dutch206

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2008, 08:19:07 AM »
Just a suggestion:

Use an herb lore roll on the "general" column of table 10-05 (alternate static maneuver table).  Use the result of that roll to modify the Foraging skill check.  (I would make the foraging skill an "all-or-nothing" (101+=success).)
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Offline Rasyr-Mjolnir

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2008, 08:21:06 AM »
Personally, I think that you can drop the region lore. Knowledge of the herb would include guidelines on type of area/terrain where it is found.

In fact, since the herbs come with codes, you could use that to determine what herbs and what type of herbs that the player knows about. You do this by limiting the player to only herbs from the terrain and climate types of where he grew up, and have each rank represent the difficulty modifier (i.e. with 8 ranks in herb lore he knows about herbs from his region with a rating of 8 or less), all without requiring skill rolls.
If the player wants to see if his character knows about another type of herb from out side his region, then he would need to roll. (and keep track of which ones he knows about).

As his skill in Herb Lore goes up, allow him to branch out to other regions, again going up the difficulty scale with more ranks.

I hope that makes sense...  ;D
Another way to do it would be to require 2 ranks for each difficulty number for local region with an additional 2 ranks for herbs from outside home region of same difficulty. (i.e. 2 ranks to know about herbs with difficulty of 1 from terrain/climate like home, and 4 ranks to know about herbs with difficulty of 1 for other terrain/climate combinations. As above, not requiring a roll for things in the Known ranges, only requiring it for things outside the known ranges.

(I.e. as a GM, determine if and what herbs will be found in an area BEFORE the players begin their search. Then they search, and if they find something inside their knowledge range, good. If they find something outside it, they make an Herb Lore roll to see if they recognize it.)




Offline Marc R

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 09:16:21 AM »
All of this is GM call, and dependant on how you want to run things. . .the progression I gave is sort of like an "Herb mini adventure".

You'd not be making those three rolls at once, it'd be more like Figure out where to look on monday, spend 5 days travelling to the place, roll the foraging roll on sunday in the right place.

This is akin to say the series of lore checks that leads indiana jones from a meeting with govornment officials to digging up the ark of the covonant. . . .travel and intermediate steps along the way take the one arc "Find the herb" and break it up with all sorts of other actions and arcs.

OTOH if you're static, living in a fixed location, there'd be a big difference. .

Like Joe the Druid, who's lived in his shack for 30 years, likely has made thousands of "Lore:Herb" and "Foraging" checks there. . . .so he may just need to make a routine foraging check for essentially any herb that grows in walking distance of the shack. "I know just the spot where some lovely foxglove grows over by the ruined wall of the abandoned barn two miles west of here."

A lot of the game revolves around the GM making calls on when to roll, what skill, at what difficulty and with what modifiers. . .

SOHK made a decent effort to offer a lot of those for GMs, but in the end there's just SO many possible permutations that the GM needs to develop a feel for how they want to do things.
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Offline vroomfogle

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Re: Find Herbs
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2008, 09:30:28 AM »
How about:

Identifying an herb to find in the wild requires a roll.  Use the lesser bonus of Herb Lore and appropriate Region Lore.  This limits you to finding Herbs in regions you know about.

Personally I think that Herb Lore would encompass herbs from all over the place, not just from places you know the region.   However, to make that correlation between your knowledge of herbs and where to find them I think Region Lore would be needed, for the reasons LM mentioned above.    However, for identifying an herb that you find on someone for instance I would just use an Herb Lore roll.