Topic: Nature deities and their followers

[dutch206]

So, with the release of Combat Companion (and the much-needed return of the divine champion), an old question has come back to haunt me.

This question concerns the followers of nature deities.  Should they be animists and rangers or clerics and champions?  (Or even a blend of cleric/animist spell lists)

Also, how would a champion and a ranger of the same deity regard each other?  (Although the feeling I get about Rangers is that they are mercenaries/bounty hunters, they are still Channelers with a divine patron.)

Any thoughts you have on this subject would help me a great deal.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

That question is obviously going to have a setting based answer.

[dutch206]

Well, in general terms, there need to be some guidelines.  Is a Ranger nothing more than a warrior with survival skills, or is a Ranger the Divine Champion of a nature deity?

[Arioch]

Well, in general terms, there need to be some guidelines.  Is a Ranger nothing more than a warrior with survival skills, or is a Ranger the Divine Champion of a nature deity?

IMHO the Divine Champion and the Ranger are similar but have different focuses: I see the Champion as a Semi-Channeling version of the fighter and the Ranger as a Semi-Channeling version of the Rogue. They have different roles and a nature deity could IMHO have both Champions and Rangers who fight for her glory.

[Michael Petrea]

I see the Divine Champion of any deity (including nature deities) as a someone whose purpose is to promote their patron deity and fight for the causes important to that deity. 

A ranger is just an outdoorsman who draws their power from the realm of nature (be it directly from a deity or from nature spirits or whatever based on the setting).  The Ranger doesn't necessarily act as a representative for a deity.

I would imagine that they would regard each other based on their view of nature and the disposition of the deity.  For example a ranger might view the nature champion as a religious fanatic who is concerned more with the idea of nature than just being in the wilderness.  Or the champion might be the servant of a capricious nature deity (perhaps storms) who find much in common with a ranger who views nature as a battle for survival.

[munchy]

I would also say it is setting based and to be honest I've also seen non-magic users and Archmages being the followers of a certain deity which means that the profession is really not that important - at least in our games.
I would also say that orders would have every profession they need to fulfil their "purpose". In the real world in our middle ages monasteries also had lay brothers who are basically not monks but still members of the monastery, thus followers of god but still had professions like smith and other crafts.
I would make it dependent on the task the order member has to fulfil. If he is to fight in the name of the deity he should be a paladin or champion, if he is to tend to a holy garden he should be an animist or cleric or farmer, if he is a diplomat in the name of the deity he should be a cleric or a bard, maybe even a houri ...

[Marc R]

Just my personal answer, but I always took the animist/ranger vs cleric/champion(paladin) to be a cultural development one. . .Cleric/paladin always seemed to imply a more heirarchial, later development religion.

This could just be a bias based on earth history, with animists being closer to pre-judeochristian religion archetypes, and clerics more like the JC archetypes.

Using an RM2 answer, I'd probably call:

Shaman
Animist
Priest

to be a progression from the earliest, least developed type, to the later and most developed type.

By development, I mean dogma, heirarchies and rules. . .

Rangers, like animists, seem less tied to a dogmatic, structured religion archetype.

[Cormac Doyle]

hehe - If I was going to completely revise the system, I'd make Animists, Rangers and their Ilk "Essence" users ...

[Marc R]

Depends on the concepting, but I agree. (We've had this conversation before.)

the "primitive" Shaman, who deals with, and makes deals with, spirits, seems the root type of all channelers.

The highly developed clerics/paladins are blatantly channeling also.

Somehow that middle area of animist/ranger gets a little fuzzy and starts sounding like essence in the absence of a god/spirit/entity. . . .it almost seems like the animist and druid are very similar, but if you look at their descriptions more closely, the animist sounds like Essence, while the druid sounds like Channeling.

[munchy]

hehe - If I was going to completely revise the system, I'd make Animists, Rangers and their Ilk "Essence" users ...

ambient mana, ey?!

[Cormac Doyle]

yep

[Marc R]

Only problem is the skill costs. . . .the differences in direction of essence vs channeling. . .like armor, channeling and Directed spell, and to a lesser degree runes and attunement make "Simply" switching the realms of a profession less than simple.

[Cormac Doyle]

yep - but I did say it would have to be a complete re-examination of the entire system ... not just a swapping of realm with the remainder of the system remaining static

[Fidoric]

Something strikes me (not too hard) when reading this thread. Channeling involves that power is granted by a greater being or maybe spirits in exchange of worshipping them. I can see why some of us think of the ranger as a essence user for they use magic as a tool and not necessarily to pay homage to somebody.
Could it be that some people could draw upon greater beings without them knowing it ? That way, a ranger can draw mana from spirits or nature gods without the need to worship them.
Thus, you can be a channeling user without adhering to any faith.

[Rasyr-Mjolnir]

In my personal opinion, one of the requirements of a Channeling user is that they must be attuned to their mana source, which sets up the conduit, allowing the source to channel PP to the character. This usually being done during an initiation or consecration ritual. It doesn't matter if the character worships the source of the mana or not, only that they are properly setup.

Not only don't they have to worship, but they may not even know in some cases.....

[Marc R]

The "flaw" to channeling always seemed to me to be that affiliation. . . .someone else is doing all the work to get the mana, in exchange you have rules, allies and enemies right off the bat. if the source is that remote, it begins to seem like essence.

[Fidoric]

That's my point. I feel that channeling should be reserved for devout followers. But that's only my humble opinion. Channeling should be a conscious and active processus.
Then again, some deities may sometimes help people not asking for it, but that kind of divine intervention is not channeling I think.