Topic: Dispel and Possession and general dispel questions

[markc]

I have been away since 2016 and it seem at some time that now Dispel (Realm) now works for possession, when did this happen and can you provide info as to why?


In general there are areas in RM (2/SS/FRP) that work differently then normal spells and this is one area IMHO and the game is much better for it being that way.


Does Dispel (Realm) work on any of the folowing?
1) Spell that breaks bones or causes any other lasting effect like this? This does not apply to illusionary damage or a spell the provides perceived damage as IMHO dispel realm works in this case.
2) Spell that does basic hits damage?
3) Damage magical creatures?
4) Damage people with PP?


MDC

[Malim]

If a dispell spell is allready running with a caster concentrating on it spells targeted in that area need to go through that dispell spell, as described in SL.
So I would say no to all four points in general.

Afaik:
1. Only if a dispell spell is in effect.
2. As 1.
3. No, that is banishment, repel etc.
4. No.

[markc]

Thanks for the reply,

In that case I agree that if you have a Dispell Sphere (5'+)  active any spell would do so and in some cases even magical attacks. And if the attacker is with in the radius then their is no dispell roll or of some how the spell attack is directed by the caster to a point of casting inside the sphere there is not dispel roll also.


In times past for exorcism I have used the following, exorcism has to saves vs the person, then potentially the entity then the effect if necessary.
So in general it is not one roll to rule them all method but a series of rolls.
In general this is to help prevent and deal with issues that can arise at any point in the process and not have a single point of major failure in the process.


MDC

[jdale]

If you're asking these questions with respect to RMU (which I'm guessing since RM2/RMC hasn't changed lately), I'll answer them but recommend you put them on the RMU boards next time, where they will be more useful to everyone else.

1) Spell that breaks bones or causes any other lasting effect like this? This does not apply to illusionary damage or a spell the provides perceived damage as IMHO dispel realm works in this case.

If the spell has a short term effect with a duration, it's an ongoing magical effect and can be dispelled. If the spell has an instant but lasting effect, e.g. the sorcerer Break Limb spell has a duration of P meaning your bone is simply broken and it will need to heal normally, then you can't dispel it.

What Malim is referring to, in terms of an anti-magic effect that must be active to block an incoming spell, is not "Dispel" but "Cancel". Dispel has no duration, it makes an immediate attempt to break all the spell effects, and then it's gone.

2) Spell that does basic hits damage?

As above, you couldn't dispel it. There's no ongoing magic.

3) Damage magical creatures?
4) Damage people with PP?

Dispel just does this: "Any active spell (sometimes for a specific realm))that is on the target must make an RR. If the spell fails its RR, it is dispelled."

A creature is not a spell, neither is a person, so it wouldn't do any harm other than potentially removing active spells on them. It's possible there could be a creature that is sustained by a spell, that dies when that spell is removed, but that would be a special case specific to that creature. I'm not aware of any such creature. I would expect that to be explicitly noted in the creature's stats or description.


Beyond that, curses and diseases (including mind diseases) are specifically called out in Spell Law as not being removed by Dispel.
 
Spell Law also says (in the section regarding spell durations):
In most cases, it should be quite obvious whether a permanent effect is continuing magic or a physically enduring object or change. For example, a permanent area of darkness is an on-going magical effect, as physical darkness would be removed by light. Continuing magic is subject to dispelling, permanent physical change is not. If there is a case where it is not obvious, the GM will have to make a judgment. Such continuing effects are subject to normal cancellation by the caster or dispelling by another, whereas a permanent alteration of the mundane is not. Note that the creation of undead creatures should be considered to be a physical (albeit unnatural) change. While the energies involved in sustaining unliving existence may be considered supernatural, they are of a different order than the spells that establish that existence in the first place. As such, undead may not be dispelled (although the mere flesh-puppets created by an Animated Dead spell may be).

Note the linkage of cancellation by the caster and dispelling. It stands to reason that if the caster can't cancel it, it also can't be dispelled; whatever you rule for a given effect should be the same for cancellation and dispelling.

The demonic Oath of Binding and Familiar Spirit get a +100 bonus vs being dispelled, so it's hard, but they can be dispelled. Likewise regular familiars.

Summoning is not explicitly discussed in Spell Law with regard to this issue. rdanhenry stated that you cannot dispel summoned creatures http://www.ironcrown.com/ICEforums/index.php?topic=16120.0 and there are some compelling reasons to go with that ruling (and I agree), but letter of the rules as written, it's left to the GM to decide. Not being able to cancel your summoning spell also seems more interesting.

Same thing with possession. Is the effect of the spell an ongoing magical effect that can be dispelled, or does it just instantly call a demon and cause it to possess the target, afterwards just staying of its own accord (which can't be dispelled)? Or is it a type of mind disease, which would mean it can't be dispelled? It's not explicit so the GM would have to decide. Whether or not you want it possible for the caster to cancel the possession can also come into the picture.

[Majyk]

For running Possession, calculate Will on both sides, then contest them each round until a “best of” threshold is reached by one side(ie. 3 out of 5, 4 of 7...).

Then, slide that secret note to the player whether they made it AOK or not, and mess with every other player’s head that their companion is now Demon-bait and watch their reactions all campaign through until they can test ‘em somehow! 

[markc]

Thanks,
I thought that there was some general rule change that had happened since I stepped down as moderator.


MDC